1. AndrewB

    AndrewB New Member

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    Can Technology Evolve in a Fantasy World?

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by AndrewB, Nov 21, 2017.

    Is technology allowed to change in a fantasy world? It seems after many thousands of years these worlds never change. Sure, weapons get more sophisticated. Or a loopy old inventor will create some flying machine. But does magic or wizardry necessarily mean no progress?
     

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  2. Lemie

    Lemie Contributor Contributor

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    It is your world, so you decide how much or little things progress happens through the years. You can have all technology or none, just as it makes sense in what you're writing.

    I don't read much fantasy, so I don't have any good examples on books with both magic and technology, but I'm sure it's a thing.
     
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  3. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    Obviously it's your choice whether you want to show progress, and a given work might not take place over a long enough span of time that you'd expect to see any, but logically there should be some amount of technological advances over time.

    As far as I'm concerned, magic ought to operate like a science. In some ways, advances in magic are also advances in technology. There's no reason to believe magic would halt advancement, especially if it's not both very common and very powerful. Take something like conjuring up fire. You could use that to heat water, creating steam. And what triggered the First Industrial Revolution in the early 1800s? Steam and water power.

    The possibilities for the interplay of magic and the other sciences are only limited by your imagination and the rules of your magic system. In my world, magic enchantments have made limited refrigeration, heating, and indoor lighting possible (though the costs of the enchantments mean only very rich nobles and merchants can get them, so the impact on society isn't massive).
     
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  4. Surcruxum

    Surcruxum Member

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    Seconded. Magic and technology is closely related. New Technology will be created to adapt to the existence of magic in the form of coexistence, like magic bullets in weaponry, or alternative power sources for example.

    However, there is also a possibility that ppl will focus more on magic r&d and therefore slowed down the advancement of technology.
     
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  5. Gadock

    Gadock Active Member

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    I think this only happens if you have no large or even global share of the knowledge about magic. Compared to the evolving of our own technology in 2 thousand to thousand years ago and that to the past 300 to now is incredibly different.

    There are quite a few stories out there where magic is new/unknown and doesn’t give a real scholarship to the characters. So the characters have to discover everything themselves. This causes a very limited evolvement.

    Ofcourse there are also quite a few stories where the opposite is the case and where evolvement of magic is constant. And here you find that they do train each other.
     
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  6. Dracon

    Dracon Contributor Contributor

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    I can think of no better illustrative example of this than Shadows of the Apt series by Adrian Tchaikovsky, one I just recently finished reading. Magic is dying in the world, people discuss it with nostalgia and legend as the world is swept up in a whirlwind of technological innovation, spanning from swords and crossbows of the medieval era to WWII dogfighting, tanks and chemical warfare by the end of the series. I'd probably say that was only about 10-20 years book time.

    I liked it because it made every book feel fresh, the wheels of progress kept spinning forward so that it felt like the series arc had direction. So I'd certainly say go for it, it does work. And on the off-chance you feel like reading a 10(!) book series for background and ideas... there's a start!

    To add to this, I want to say that the technological aspect was the most interesting part of the whole series that I read - there is a magic system, but I'd take it or leave it, that wasn't the most interesting aspect for me. So I disagree that the magic element will always overshadow all the other aspects of your world.
     
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  7. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Welcome to the site!

    Fantasy fans have been saying for years that there should be more stories about avoiding Medieval Stasis by how technology would develop in a world where magic exists :D
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I feel like I need examples of the fantasy works for which this is true.
     
  9. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    It's called "Medieval Stasis."

    @AndrewB 's specific word choice may have been an exaggeration, but the basic concept is widespread enough that there are plenty of people asking specifically for fantasy authors to start doing something else instead of doing this.
     
  10. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    I agree. The only way I can think of to stagnate technological progress is by removing science all together. This is probably why most fantasy tends to have a religious aspect. It’s easy to allow technological progress to stagnatebif the culture views anything new as unnatural or an affront to their gods.
     
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  11. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    One the best books I've ever beta was a mix of Fantasy, horror, and Sci-fi. While usually, I don't recommend mixing genres like that, that book was so well written and thought out that it changed my view on the subject. One can -if skilled enough- combined magic and a space-ship element. With that being said, there is no reason you can't combine fantasy elements and advancing technology in the same story.
     
  12. Laurus

    Laurus Disappointed Idealist Contributor

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    Not necessarily. But magic needs rules. Once you have rules, you can determine how technology outside of magic fits in. The Elder Scrolls is a good example of how magic and technology work together. Tamriel is due to enter another dark age due to the extinction of the highly technologically advanced Dwemer race, and that's despite the plethora of magic users. There are simply some things magic cannot do. Though, magic is itself technology. So of course technology is allowed to change in a fantasy world. But if it's going to be meaningful change, then it has to play by a set of rules that ascribe advantages and limitations. I wouldn't take seriously any magic system that can overcome obstacles just because "it's magic."
     
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  13. archer88i

    archer88i Banned Contributor

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    I think magic and wizardry necessarily mean that you get different progress, but that isn't the same as no progress. Take Lord of the Rings, for instance. In the beginning, we get Melkor and others who do their work with nothing but the raw power of their voice. And, sure, Melkor is very powerful, but he has no tools to work with, and in the end he's defeated. Later on we have Sauron, who is less powerful than Melkor, but who faces other, less powerful opponents. Unfortunately for them, Sauron is armed with a state of the art tool of domination and destruction: the One Ring. It is feared that he is practically invincible as long as he possesses this weapon.

    So, you know. Different developments, but there are still developments. You can see this in our world, actually. When was the last time you ran across a devilishly complex clockwork toy? They're damned rare, aren't they. Why? Can we not make those? Is it simply impossible to progress beyond clock springs and pendulums? Well, you know the truth already, don't you: it's not that we can't make super-complicated mechanical gadgetry; it's that we don't bother anymore.

    We now have magic (read: solid state electronics and general purpose computers) for that.
     
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  14. AndrewB

    AndrewB New Member

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    Reminds me of what Arthur C Clarke said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
     
  15. AndrewB

    AndrewB New Member

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    I am working on a serialized novel where magic has been banned from much of a world, it progressed to a "diesel age." When a WW2- style conflict erupts, the last remaining wizard kingdom sees their opportunity to take over the world.
     
  16. AndrewB

    AndrewB New Member

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    Lord of the Rings is an example. After many ages, it's still swords and armor. A wizard making gunpowder was a huge advance.
     
  17. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Hey, quick tip: on this site, the etiquette is generally that, when you want to reply to a few posts in the same thread, you try to do it all in a single post.

    Like this.

    And this :)

    Also this one :D
     
  18. AndrewB

    AndrewB New Member

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    Like this?
     
  19. AndrewB

    AndrewB New Member

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    Guess my phone doesn't let me do that. Oh well
     
  20. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Great question! What if Isaac Newton lived in your traditional fantasy world? Would he be content with "it's magic," or would he try to understand it to the point where it was no longer magic? Does that mean that in most of these worlds there are no geniuses that could compare to ours? Does that mean that fantasy populations are in general stupid?
     
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  21. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Isaac Newton died convinced that he was on the verge of creating the Philosophers' Stone ;)

    It's a running joke in the scientific community that Newton wasn't the first scientist, he was the last magician :)
     
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  22. Not Ready to Say

    Not Ready to Say Active Member

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    I mean, I don't see why not. Look at the Disc world books, there is plenty of technological innovation in some of the books, like the Clacks tower (like relays of morse code). And a crazy inventor... bad example. Point is, fantasy worlds can have innovation, depends on how far you can stretch your laws of nature.
     
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  23. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Pretty sure that honor would go to to Aristotle, but you're right, there are better examples than Newton.
     
  24. Spacer

    Spacer Active Member

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    We’ve discussed that a time or two on Worldbuilding.stackexchange.com. Let me see…
    My own two cents:
    The scientific method is based on results that are reproducible, through consistent rules that operate on the lowest level.

    If physical law were teleological instead, an attempt to understand physics would be more like psychology or politics. It would have more in common with Madison Avenue than Mathematics.

    Success in predicting or intentionally producing desired results wouldn't be utterly perfect but would be like modern understanding of Economics.

    So yes, magic will inhibit scientific discovery. They might even conflict greatly, interfering with each other!
     
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  25. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    I would think that it's all a matter of economics. Not necessarily money economics, but effort and work expended. For example, if it takes a... class 7 wizard, somebody fairly high up and important, to cast a flying spell, it might be worth it for people to start screwing around with hot air balloons and gliders. On the other hand, if flame amulets can be bought for pennies and can start small fires for years, nobody is going to be messing around trying to invent matches. Why bother? It's up to you to determine your magic system, but anything that's technologically possible (matches, airplanes, the telephone) but magically "expensive" is going to be a field people look into improving.
     
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