yes, that was a pretty ridiculous explanation, art!... your example was hilarious and spot on, btw... and i notice that cacian still has not said if that is her/his actual name, or not! what about it, cacian?... are you lying/deceiving us about your name, while claiming it's dishonest for others to do so?
Hmm... my nephew's name is Christian. Does that make him a woman? I'd better let my sister know... And initials aren't masculine, they're gender neutral. my name on here, m5roberts, usually leads people to assume I'm a man. I'm not. I've not claimed to be. Also, I work at a book store. Quite a few men come in here and get books by women. But there are also some who have come in looking for suggestions, but then specify that they won't read anything written by women. They claim that all women write fluff, and then look up sort of embarrassed, hoping that I won't notice that they're insulting my gender. People have prejudices... authors sometimes find ways to work around them. I agree that an author's gender shouldn't matter. But to some people they do. It's all well and good to think that people's attitudes will change about female authors if the work is good and it speaks for itself... But how can it speak at all if it's not given a chance?
Deception isn't always unacceptable in other circumstances, either, but that's not really relevant. I think the reason some women have left their names gender neutral is so their writing has a chance to be judged on its own merit, not so they can pretend to be men. But that's an interesting point about reinforcing prejudices. Are we all obligated to fight these prejudices by revealing our genders as writers, or are we being wise by accepting the prejudices exist and finding a way around them? Seems to be an issue that can be decided by the individual writer on the basis of their personal preference.
It should also be noted that, in these times of the internet, once an author becomes even somewhat known, their gender will also. But by that time, it doesn't matter because their work has already been 'judged' - and, as you say, on its own merits. Therefore, the prejudices are addressed and in what I think is the most productive way.
I find that women write differently than men, but maybe that is only because I always do a little background information on the person I'm reading to find out who they are. That is not to say it is any less sufficient than any male counterpart. On the contrary, I believe that this is the golden age of writing for women and expect that they may overtake the ratio of good writers as compared to men.
How about we all do a test!? Especially those who think they can pick a female writer from a male writer. Here are 4 excerpts of the first paragraph of randomly selected short stories that I found on the Internet (no Googling them now to find the answers!) I want to hear from people whether you think the writers here are male or female and why... Example 1 My brother Timmy's Halloween party started with a parade of high school guys, six packs in hand, piling out of rusted pick-up trucks and climbing the stairs over the garage into a smoky room where loud music blasted through tall free-standing speakers. Example 2 I need my rent money before the fifteenth this man says to me. He's my landlord and he lives beneath me in the basement apartment with his wife and dogs. I don't know how many dogs and I don't know what they look like because I've never seen them but I've heard them. I've heard them at three, four, five o'clock in the morning. Howling and moaning. It sounds as if they are conjuring demons. Example 3 Vusi Makusi was a terminal optimist. He was an optimist even though he lived in one of the poorest places in the world, even though he only owned one suit, and his trousers didn't reach his ankles. Example 4 Your mother had always loved India, although she'd never been there. Your father had once, during the war. Crowds, he'd said when you'd begged him to tell you about it. Hot, he admitted when you pleaded for more. ----------- And just to cover the citation of these, they can all be viewed at: http://www.short-stories.co.uk/
I'm pretty sure nobody can tell from a single paragraph. Just for laughs, though, I'll guess: Female, Male, Male, Female.
Hehe... sounds fun So if I had to guess I'd say Male, Male, Female, Female? I don't know why the first two seem male to me, they...... just seem more male, heh. Maybe it's the way the first one desciribes a smoky room and speakers in the same sentence. IDK. The second one I thought was male immediately, because of the way it's worded again, though that could just be the authors style and I could be completely wrong. The 3rd one hit me as female. It has a nurturing, gentle lead quality to it (sheesh, that sounds sexist, but is true). The 4th strikes me as female as well, again the wording, the structure. I want to read that 4th one, heh, but I'll wait until you tell me I'm right/wrong to look for it Interestingly, on that note, I primarily read male authors. I don't know why that is, and it's not intentional, it just happens, especially in short stories. However the only ones of these I was even vaguely interested in continuing to read were the last two (which strike me as female) and the last one is the only one I would really go out of my way to read (based on first paragraph alone). And HA! That's it.... the last two IMMEDIATELY created empathy. The 3rd one for the guy with one suit that didn't fit (But he's still optimistic! Go, him!) and the last one because the character (you) is begging for something and just barely getting even single word answers. The empathy for the character is immediate (with me). In the first one I would be empathizing with a party, a smoky room, loud music and trucks. Nope. In the second I CAN empathize with the character immediately, but instead of really getting a picture of who he is, or what he's longing for, I get only that the dogs annoy him and his landlord gave him 2 weeks extra to pay his rent and he's still bitchy about it. K. Not very empathetic, or even sympathetic. The second one seems like a better start than the first one, but if I had to say which one I would least like to read it would be the second. He (I assume, and could be wrong) missed the boat (to me). (And this is the part where you tell me I just dissed some major award-winning, best of the best authors, heh. Oh well, the truth is still the truth.) But again, I could be entirely, 100% wrong because like I mentioned previously, I know a man that wrote a story on intense subject matter from the POV of a teenage girl and made me feel like I WAS her, I would have sworn it was written by a woman and it was written by a man that also writes incredibly masculine things. So, maybe these authors have just disappeared and it's the characters I'm picking up on, but.... Shrug. I played the game anyway Very interested to see what Cacian thinks though.
Ah. Indeed very well said and in a very humourist fun way. However you take Mario then you take Marian or Maria If you take one word a masculine one and you wish to turn it into a feminin you take O out and IAN. The point I am trying to make is that you usually add an A to signal feminin and O for masculin. take John then Joanna. Notice how the A or AN or NA is added to the same name to turn into a feminin Most names that end with an A tend to be Feminin The case of Brian of Maximillian do not have a feminin version of them. Cacian if Feminin because it has an AN Cacio would be the masculin of it.
My intentions are always as clear as water. I never engage in deception to prove that I am something I am not. I really thought that cacian was clear enough as a feminin name but that's because my real name also ends with an IA. In French if a name has ends with an IA it is mostly feminin. Cacian is an reversed replica to my real name.
You mean for the male/female author paragraphs from je33ie? Just put them in the thread like me and Ixloriana did....
My guesses are : Woman Man Man Man although I would say that those were very short to make a proper guess. There isn't enough texts.
I had posted mine on the last page, with explanations (and they're still there) but thought maybe it would be easier if they're in a line and more succinct because my explanations for why I think they are male/female muddy it up a bit, heh
Just post them here and I'll let you know how you went. Great responses Trish! I'll wait for a few more before I give the answers away. I think it's interesting though that if any of us were asked if we were sexist we would all say "No! Of course not!" but we all bring our prejudices to the table, most of the time without even knowing we're doing it. Has anyone ever read John Gray's 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus?' It celebrates differences between men and women and makes some pretty clear distinctions between the two genders. Is John Gray sexist - I think he most definitely is! But does that make him a bad person?
Thanks Cacian for guessing! You got one of four right. I agree that the texts are very short, but the tone and language used in these first paragraphs continues throghout the whole text, so I don't know if you'd get much more from seeing the rest.
I've had the book for ages but haven't read it yet (it was a gift from my sister). With that caveat, I would say that 'celebrating' the differences doesn't sound sexist to me, at any rate. Is John Gray sexist? I wonder if the question would even be asked if he had been a she? Does it make him a bad person if he is? No one should be judged on only one facet of themselves.
