Novel Chapter causing problems? Consider getting rid of it....

Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by jannert, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I don't know if I'm for cutting everything that doesn't work if you mean if it doesn't work for the plot.
    It may be the driving force of most books but sometimes it's not. If you're going for more literary or general fiction -- mood and character and theme are equally important and something can work for your story but not necessarily forward your plot. Anyone read the opening to The Road? interesting but it didn't really forward the plot could have been easily clipped. The egg scene in The Handmaid's Tale.
    Right now I'm trying to merge my WIP between genre and literary and I haven't been able to indulge too much in the literary side because I'm on a slash and burn campaign to get my word count under control but once I do I'd love to sharpen up the embedded themes that have emerged -- one I'm trying to wrap my head around is infinite regression (from the planet of the apes - lol) and because it is infinite regression even the act of imbedding it from movies (which is another theme) fulfills itself by it's sheer presence.
     
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  2. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I'm not keen on your tone - when did I say or imply that any Tom, Dick or Harry can bang out Shakespeare with enough effort? Sure, maybe I have crafted "such a thing" but if it was not my intention, what do I care? Again, great someone may read more into it than I'd intended, honoured if they feel it gave them more insight than I knew I had, but if I hadn't intended on putting it there, I can't exactly claim it was my skill.

    And the point is, you cannot intentionally craft unintended meaning. There is no debate to this. I don't care if people read things into my book that I hadn't intentionally put there - I care more about whether they do get the things I actually want them to get. I mean, that's the whole point of writing anything to begin with.
     
  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But what if you find that your subconscious mind had a plan, and it's a genius quality plan? I think you get genius credit for that. :)
     
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  4. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I don't mean that cutting is always a good thing. I'm certainly not a minimalist when it comes to writing! However, I have discovered that recurring problems/doubts can often be solved by simply removing the offending scene or chapter. It's not even that they are particularly badly written (some are, some aren't) but that their presence is what makes the story feel awkward at that point.

    Now that the penny has dropped for me, removing a troublesome part of the story is something I will always consider doing. If it's necessary to keep it, I will keep working on it till it's right. But sometimes, no matter how much work you put in, it simply needs to go. I've already done this with several chapters and scenes in my book, but the principle didn't hit me till just a couple of days ago—while endlessly revising my Chapter One, trying to get the POV to work better.

    I wrote and rewrote and rewrote, trying to keep the sense of mystery without making a big deal out of it, trying to avoid an infodump while dumping information, and etc. Hey ho! The reason I can't get that chapter to work is because most of it shouldn't be there! I did keep the opening scene, for clarity, but then moved straight into Chapter Two ...and called the whole thing Chapter One. It works better than it sounds, trust me—and it makes the POV much more do-able as well. I do love these Eureka moments.
     
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  5. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    Totally agree. I had to axe a favorite scene in my WIP where the 14 year old goes to a Halloween dance because the new mc isn't privy to this scene. Sigh. It was such a fun scene.
    Tightening the beginning for me is the hardest. Especially in novels. I don't know why. Glad you were able to make the right cuts!
    Yes! only for me they can tend to be delayed I don't know how eureka they are until the dust settles and I can finally see and stop second guessing my decision.
     
  6. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think it matters too much if we're talking literary or genre. Baggage that's not needed can weigh a work down and even kill an otherwise good story. I write literary fiction and end up cutting and trashing unneeded words, pages, passages, chapters all the time. And this can be especially true of beginnings. A lot of times writers write their way into the story. And, though there is nothing apparently wrong with the writing, sometimes it just doesn't fit no matter how hard we try to make it. I had a story that I thought was pretty good, but the first half or so just wasn't right. I tried reworking and rewriting it. I think it can be hard to just cut. But then I did it. Cut out a beginning that I thought I loved and was important. It wasn't and it took me a long time to realize that. I could have made the argument that this was literary fiction and I was addressing other aspects besides plot, but that would have only hurt me. After my big cut, the story sold for big money the next time I sent it out. Cutting isn't about stripping a story down to the bones. It's often about refining and bringing in a tighter focus. And for that it really doesn't matter if we're talking about genre or literary works.
     
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  7. Carriage Return

    Carriage Return Member

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  8. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    If your goal is to sell, and you have something you think is salable, I say wrap it up and try to get it published.

    If you're a successful author and want to go for prizes, then maybe you can afford to take the extra time to try to achieve your original vision.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  9. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I agree with this in general principle. I had a BIG subplot in my WIP that had my co-protagonists going from

    friends
    to enemies
    to kinda-friends who had to work together
    to enemies

    and I realized that the entire inner enemies-to-kinda-friends part served a couple of itty bitty plot purposes that I could buy in other ways, and I could have everything I needed and even almost everything I wanted with:

    friends
    to enemies who are forced to work together

    and I killed about six scenes and eliminated the need for another six or more, while preserving the parts I really liked by virtue of the "forced to work together".

    However, I still think that "Because I want it there," can be a good enough reason for a scene. The scene Shovel is still in this WIP. Does it have a purpose? I can't tell. I could say that it has important character information, and it shows the two protagonists at a specific brief moment in their acquaintanceship, and this and that, but, really, I don't need it. It's there because I want it there.
     
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  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I totally agree. However, an 'I want it there' scene is unlikely to be a part of your story that is giving you trouble—even if it's not entirely necessary to the plot. If it feels right, keep it.

    It's when it feels wrong and you haven't been able to 'fix' it—despite umpteen rewrites—that I'd suggest dumping it. If you don't feel sad about losing it, but rather relief that it's no longer a problem you have to deal with, you know you've done the right thing.

    You don't have to keep it just because you put it there in the first place.

    In my OP I wasn't concerned about what should be cut and what should be left, in terms of editing in general. I was concerned about attempting to fix chapters/scenes that you can't seem to fix. You can't fix them, or pinpoint what's wrong, and you keep trying and trying and rewriting and tinkering, and and...

    It's probably your subconscious telling you they should go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  11. ddavidv

    ddavidv Senior Member

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    As a new writer dumping a scene or chapter was a very difficult thing to accept. Every time I've done it my finished product has been better. One book I dumped the entire first chapter and made the second the starting point of the story. If you are a good reader you'll be able to discern when your writing needs pruned.

    I do keep my discarded chapters and scenes in a 'deleted scenes' file just so they aren't lost forever. Fun to review on occasion but I've never regretted culling one.
     
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  12. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Ditto. Well, mostly, anyway. I did actually restore one chapter, because a beta reader asked for it. I left it out of an edited version and wrote around it, plot-wise, but she said she wanted to actually see the scene unfold. I had given her the cut version, without including the 'wedding' scene—or mentioning that I'd cut it out—and she suggested I write one. I was happy to report 'I already have.' And restored most of it.

    So yeah. Never erase your work. Having said that, the wedding chapter wasn't a problematic for me to write at all. It's just that I was looking for ways to cut an overly-long story, while doing the edits. As this chapter wasn't really 'necessary' to the plot, it was possible to cut it out. However, it proved to be necessary for the reader's emotional journey, so I restored it. Never throw your chapters away. But do see how the story works without them, if you find them problematic or think they might be story fluff.

    I still stand by the idea that if you're having problems writing a scene, or it seems out of place in some way when you get finished, instead of trying to fix it, maybe try cutting it altogether.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018

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