Character concept: Anti-heroine with superpowers in a futuristic setting with gothic elements?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by RosebySun, Sep 22, 2023.

  1. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    And if you saw Jessica Jones season 2, this was the theme of it. Her mom was a monster, and was really a lot like Jessica only more powerful, and lost control of her own conscience at times and let herself do terrible things that Jessica wouldn't, or at least hasn't yet. But Jessica is afraid she's like her mom and just has been able to keep it under control so far. But she's afraid it's in her genetics, and she's headed that way.

    And meanwhile Trish desperatley wants power, is willing to take any risk to get it, and though she's always seemed to be the moral compass of the show, it becomes clear when she has powers she's eager to use them, consequences be damned. She's headed toward becoming a monster. I just use that word instead of saying a horrible person or a real asshole. It's all built around the character web of superpowers and conscience. Each main character has a different moral relation to the theme. I suppose this is where I link to my blog post about Character Web.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2023
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    It was also the theme of Daredevil season 2, where the Punisher showed up. He was like Daredevil (I think he even told him on a rooftop once "You're not so different from me"), but he was willing to kill and use guns, and he gave Daredevil all kinds of grief for not being committed enough, and having morals that tied his hands and prevented him from being as effective as the Punisher. And again, I don't think anybody ever used the word monster, but it would have fit perfectly. Daredevil wasn't a monster because he refused to kill or to use guns, some said the Punisher was a monster because he had no such compunctions. And the other main character of course was the Kingpin, far more a monster than either, and he just totally owned it. Though even he had a sob story about being an abused child (it's a Netflix Marvel show, so it's built around childhood trauma and how it affects people) that he thinks excuses his monster behavior and even makes him the good guy (a lot like how Killgrave felt).
     
  3. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    From the above, you might consider that the level of pain involved make this power an option if last result for her. Add to that, mental changes that go with the physical. If she has multiple options of her physical form, whether a concious choice or the form is unperdictable, some forms might make her more blood thirst, and merciless. Think vampire legends of the new vampire being taken over by the hunger, or the werewolf where the wolf takes control. Then you have the moral and ethical internal struggle as she tries to come to terms with what she did in that state. You have many different options availible on dealing with her powers, but keep in mind the more powerful the option the greater the negative aspect of that option should be.

    Does she fully remember what she does in the altered state, or is it just flashes of memories? How does she come out of the state? Is it Bruce Banner like, waking up someplace naked, or something more concious? Did the lab discover and train all her powers, or does she discover some on her own after escaping? Does she see herself as becoming a monster with everything that has been done to her? Does she embrace it of reject it?
    Buffy embraced her slayer aspect to a degree, but still struggled to compartmentalize the different aspects of her life, as i recall. I don't remember the series very well.

    I think one aspect of this that will influence the tone, is the inciting incident. Where does the reader first encounter her? Is it her being kidnapped for the experiments, or during her escape, or after both of those. The reader seeing some of the experiments could set the horror aspect in their minds with the description of the experiments, and make her sympathetic. What she has to do to escape could also set the tone in a similar fashion.

    What POV(s) are you planning on using. Thinking about it, I might start it off with a meeting of the bad guys discussing what to do about her escape. With a debate about her value as a subject vs how dangerous she is, ie do we capture or kill her. Either way, bringing in the investigator, knowing his history with her as a way of trying to predict her next moves.
    Just some food for thought there.
     
  4. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ah, I might have misread you previous comment. Damn you sure really like delving into the psychological aspects of characters, which is really interesting
     
    Xoic likes this.
  5. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    Character arcs are about the changes the character goes through, and the lessins they learn. The exceptition to that is the flat arc, which is primarily in the action genre.

    I would recommend the following books for you to look at.
    Character by Robert Mckee
    And either Wired for Story, or Story Genius by Lisa Cron. Both of which get into the brain science of story.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  6. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Character is an excellent book, as are all of McKee's, but for character arc I would start with K M Weiland's blog:

    She covers it extremely well. In fact it might be the only stop you need. But then if you want greater depth on character, go to McKee.
     
  7. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    The transforming aspect you suggested sounds pretty intense, I was thinking with the whole bone manipulation thing, the pain makes her adrenaline spike to the extreme and go into full on fight or flight mode with no in-between, it clouds her mind and judgement to the point she doesn't think rationally, wildly attacking her foes until they're nothing and it's even worse when she regenerates.

    I'm aiming towards the lab conditioning her and training her with her abilities to an almost instinctual level, I don't know if that'll work to be honest

    In terms of perspective, I was thinking of maybe have it from the investigators perspective at first and maybe have it switch from him to Sam whose true identity isn't revealed till later (her enemies call her the codename from the lab or the name of her rumoured alter ego (since the real Sam was presumed deceased by the public due to a cover up). Some might to capture her since she's valuable and her captor's have spent... lets say, millions of dollars on the project or something like that

    I think the reader would encounter her just after she escaped and is hiding in the city from her captors and she's already tried to defend herself against them leading to rumours she's mysterious and dangerous. While in Sam's perspective, I was thinking of dropping hints for example she becomes frantic as she's backed into a corner, the only thoughts that race in her mind is to never return to that place at all costs and continue from there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2023
    Xoic likes this.
  8. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    Good, we have you thinking. But the hard part is still ahead. Where is the story going? She is a caged animal looking to escape, metaphorically speaking. Which raises a possible theme for the story. What is she willing to do for her freedom?
     
  9. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9

    I'm still trying to figure that out, right now, I thought of Sam bring distraught and trying to survive as much of possible, next comes the cat and mouse game with the investigator who wants to bring to justice and maybe she works on revenge as she realizes the entire city is under their influence along with the dilemma of being morally gray
     
  10. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    Wow this is really helpful for someone like a beginner like me, thanks for that
     
    Xoic likes this.
  11. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    I see two options for style with this. One is a more comic book type story, the other is a more serious work about a super human. Deciding which of those you want to follow will help clarify things for you.

    That covers your beginning hook or first act. First Act represents about 25% of the total word count.

    This would be your second act, or middle build. Second Act represents about 50% of the total word count.

    Third Act represents about 25% of the total word count, and is your climax.

    That breakdown is based on the Save the Cat, method for writing. The method was originally developed for screen writing but works for novels as well.

    You need to find the writing method that works for you. I know Xoic, likes the snowflake method. Personally, I research the different methods I find, and use bits and pieces from the ones I like.

    Here is a resource that gives the breakdown of the save the cat method.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  12. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    It's bigger than that, it's the Three Act Structure, which is the basis of most story structure methods. And really the Snowflake method isn't a particular structure or approach to structure, it's just a way of figuring out what your story is about and who your characters are. It's totally independent of any stysem for structuring or plotting, it's more something you use in the early stages to develop your ideas. And I highly recommend it, though I (and I suspect everybody who uses it) use my own variation. Randy Ingermanson, the creator of it, presents a very mathematical process (he's a coder, it's how he thinks), but you can come up with your own way of doing every part of it.

    If you do a search you can find many more articles and videos on it.

    Many people get by on just reading about it and working out their own version, but the book really takes you through how it works, using an ongoing story about a bunch of fairy-tale characters (Goldilocks, one of the Three Little Pigs, the Big Bad Wolf) at a writing seminar.

    You can also learn about three-act structure online through a few articles and videos. It's one of the most important things a beginning writer should learn about. Give me a minute, I'll post some links below.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2023
  13. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    Yes, it is three act structure. I was trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to simplify it and give our friend a resource link at the same time. Personally I see the snowflake method as more of a concept development tool than anything else. That is not to say there is anything wrong with it, just my opinion of where it fits into the development chain for a story. Similar to the way diving into a characters back story is used by Lisa Cron in Story Genius. The more tools any writer has in their tool box, the better their final product will be, provided they use the tools effectively. We all need to find what works for us in developing and producing our ideas on the page, in a away that our readers will enjoy.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  14. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Here we go:
    I like the Shark approach, where story is conceived as being like a shark, which has three important parts—a bite, a body, and a tail. The bite is what grabs you, it has to be powerful and dynamic and hook the reader in. Well, I'll let the link explain the rest.

    Once you know about three act structure you can expand into other methods if you want, they all either build on or are rebellions against classical three act structure, discovered by Aristotle back when he was figuring out everything we'd ever need to know about anything.
     
  15. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    So she loses control temporaily, as the rage takes over. It sounds like you're heading toward a story about these uncontrollable fits of anger that take her over, and then when she comes back to herself she has to deal with any guilt over what she did while out of control. This could be your main theme if you want to think deeper into it and develop it a bit (which could be done using the Snowflake approach, or however you want to go about it).

    Wait, what do you mean "It's even worse when she regenerates?" I was with you until that, but now I don't understand. Do you mean she doesn't really come back to her senses at all, ever? No, I don't think that's it. Maybe the pain is worse?
     
  16. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    Along with the remorse over her actions while out of control, you have the option of her trying to learn to control this aspect of things. Her attempts at control and failures could give you a whole suite of possible complications. Perhaps in some cases her attempts to control this actually make it worse, ETC.

    Depending on how the regeneration is handled, I could see it as physically painful as the bullet is forced back out of her body, almost like being shot a second time. Or mentally painful, as she spits out bullets, maybe like a cat coughing up a hair ball. Or just the sound of them landing in the toilet as her bowel passes them.

    The physical transformation would be the more painful of the two as I see it. With bones changing shape and location, the feeling would not be pleasant. And there is the possibility of her organs shifting location at the same time, because of the new form.
    Lots of options here.
     
  17. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    Going back that far, you run into deus ex machina, as the solution to your plot. And that doesn't fly today.

    *deus ex machina was used Greek and Roman drama, a god lowered by stage machinery to resolve a plot or extricate the protagonist from a difficult situation.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  18. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    This'll be a big help thanks, I was planning a first draft but had trouble deciding where to start, hopefully the save the cat method might remedy that. Would this work if someone was making animated content since it's something I'm currently studying, this could help my workflow.
     
  19. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Aristotle didn't recommend that, in fact he was one of the voices railing against it even then. He basically created (rather discovered) how story structure works. It's really a reflection of how the mind works. We always break story-like ideas down into three stages—an introduction, a main body, and a conclusion. And the cheap trick known as Deus ex Machina (the god from the machine, who is lowered down onto the stage to save everything) was illogical and not an organic story development. He championed organically developing everything from within the logic of the plot itself. Basically he created (discovered) story as we know it today. Of course, as with Alexander Bell's telephone, there have been some modifications and upgrades since then, but he had all the working parts in place and understood (and showed us) how they work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2023
    w. bogart likes this.
  20. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2022
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    US
    Robert Blake developed the method for screenwriting. The only change is drawn pictures instead of live actors.
     
  21. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Sure. At the heart of any movie is story. In fact most of the story structure methods began as screenwriting methods, or at least work for that too. Robert McKee is really a screenwriter. The rules are the same whether the story is going to be written or filmed (mostly, with some differences).
     
    RosebySun likes this.
  22. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    Yeah I meant the pain is worse when the adrenaline wears off causing crashes where the pain comes back in full force stacked by the regeneration process

    The fits of rage happen also tend to happen when she's backed into a corner or very desperate too
     
  23. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    13,365
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    It does sound like you might be moving awfully close to Wolverine territory. I would try to come up with some definite differences to minimize that.
     
  24. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    Yeah, you're not wrong about that. I might just fall back on another completely different set of superpowers instead to make her way more unique. For example the blood manipulation or something else.

    What other ideas do you think would be good?
     
  25. RosebySun

    RosebySun Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2023
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thats good to know thanks
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice