One character that I dislike is from one of my favourite books: Bellis Coldwine from The Scar by China Mieville. Whilst her motivation and the idea behind the character are really cool, I just found her personality really hard to read from the perspective of for the story. She's basically very cold, distant, and cynical, but not in a heavy sarcasm or snarky comment way that would make her at least humorous. Instead, she just genuinely despises the situation she's in and despises those around her because of it: about the closest to friendships she gets are pleasant conversations and an almost purely sexual relationship with someone she barely knows. I mean, she's a good character, but potentially not the best one to have as the protagonist.
I think you've touched on something it's interesting to work with in stories. Any time ANY character is in need of help/rescue and the person they love arrives to do the deed, it's going to be an emotional moment. More so, than if the rescue is done by some neutral (but more realistic) individual. The lover CARES what happens to the trapped person, so they are motivated to do something, and will try to walk on water if need be, to save the person they love. Think about any time when you've felt trapped or vulnerable. The person you love most is the one you want to see coming through that door to save you, isn't it? (Or bounding across the clearing, weapon at the ready, or sneaking in through the basement window, knife ready to cut the ropes, etc.) It's a powerful dynamic, and it works across all genders, I suspect. It also ramps up the story tension if the rescuer is also in danger.
Moreover, it makes sense that the one to risk their neck to save the hero/heroine/side character also holds him/her dear, be it because they're lovers, or good friends, or brothers/sisters in arms. It's possible that a stranger does it too, but say you introduce a couple, and one of them gets in trouble. Well, chances are their partner will do whatever they can to save their love interest. I understand the damsel in distress -trope annoys people as it's so overused, but I think it can absolutely, positively be done in a compelling way. Besides, many women find it romantic, so I'm not surprised it appears a lot (?) in romance. Granted, I'm not much of a romance reader, but in the books I've read, sooner or later the heroine is overwhelmed and needs a bit of help from the -- who else -- dashing love interest. But it's not like the villains are playing ping-pong with her! Also, in my favorite animated film ever, The Beauty and the Beast, the Beast saves Belle from a pack of wolves, and it's amazing and chills-inducing and important for the development of both characters. Now I wonder if that scene had even happened if the movie had been made around the time Frozen came out?
The problem isn't that a loved one can't or shouldn't be rescued, it's that the damsel being rescued is usually shown as being helpless, having no initiative of their own, and generally serving no actual purpose *other* than to be rescued. They get caught so that the hero has something to do.
Oh I shudder to think what would have happened if Beauty and the Beast had come out today rather than back then. I enjoyed Frozen personally, but seriously, I really miss the grandeur, the majesty, the dignity Disney had in their films. They took themselves seriously, they took fairytales seriously. They were invested in the magic and majesty of things. These days? It's all about subverting culture and pleasing the crowd, especially pleasing the adults/parents with ore grown-up jokes, poking fun at themselves as if they were embarrassed to be caught making a fairytale. It's a shame. You won't find openings like in the Lion King now, would you? Too busy trying to be "witty"
Oh, I agree. I was actually talking about books with the main character being a woman. She's already the hero, and her love interest is the side character. She has a story, personality, initiative, agency etc. but ends up overwhelmed by the odds or enemies she's facing and then, lo, the love interest comes to the rescue and it's oh-so-romantic. The other side of the coin that you seem to be talking about: two thrillers by one of my favorite war thrillers authors come in mind, wherein the female characters kind of existed just to develop the hero and he did save them as well. However, I wasn't offended or anything. Those books aren't targeted at feminists, or even women, but rather they offer a male power fantasy, which can be as offensive, useless, and inconsiderate as its male counterpart in "chick lit" because it's a fantasy. And I actually rather liked the female characters even though their roles weren't that integral. They did kick ass, had important jobs (a war correspondent and a physician), and aspirations, but they weren't that well-developed in the end. I agree. There's a degree of cynicism in some of the newer animations. The characters can be great and likable, like the redheaded sister in Frozen (sorry, I forget her name) or Tiana in the Princess and the Frog (I actually really liked that film), but it's like the movies are really quite self-aware as you said. Sure, I hate that Disney changed the ending of The Little Mermaid although I'm otherwise a stout defender of Ariel as a character, but I do keep going back to old(er) Disney films. Not cos they were my childhood films (my first childhood film is the Lion King, and while it's friggin epic, it's not in my top five), so it's not nostalgia speaking. They just resonate with me more strongly than Frozen or Tangled, even Brave, which was actually pretty forgettable. I think a lot of them contain good characters, but for example with Frozen, I really disliked both "main" male characters. They were more like caricatures. And while I love The Little Mermaid, Prince Erik is as interesting as a rock in a burlap sack and Phoebus in The Huncback of Notre Dame is as boring and stereotypical a hero as they come while Quasimodo, Esmeralda and Frollo really shine. But I guess you can't win with every character.
Funny. For me, that shift happened in Sword in the Stone, and never really went back ...maybe except for Beauty and The Beast, which played it fairly straight, if memory serves me right. Sword in the Stone was the first time I remember being bored at a Disney film, and found that moment when Merlin appears dressed in a Hawaiian shirt and sunglasses a bit much. It was certainly funny, but way out of place. I thought Jungle Book was equally disappointing for similar reasons. I used to love getting sucked into the world of the fairy/folk tales, and hated it when suddenly the cute aside jokes appeared and ruined the effect. I remember seeing the first couple of Studio Ghibli films and thinking THIS is what Disney should be doing! Serious stories. There was humour in them, but not let's pander to adults and pop culture stuff.
Have you seen The Black Cauldron? Scared my pants off as a kid. The characters are fun and the world is pretty interesting and dark. Too bad the story isn't all that strong.
Sword in the Stone is possibly my favourite Disney movie. I also love Beauty and the Beast. Cinderella and Sleepy Beauty bored me, except for the sequence with the fairy godmothers in the cottage. I REALLY hated the trilling singing in them. I haven't seen any of the recent ones, including Frozen. I probably will one day.
It's Disney, but it's from the early '80s I think. If you remember my GoodReads update about the Chronicles of Prydain? The movie is based on that. It's in my top five.
Well, that's a recommendation I'll act on. I'll get the DVD. I was born in 1949, just before Cinderella and Alice in Wonderland were released, and I only saw them when they did their second run through theatres. Ditto the earlier classics Snow White, Pinocchio, Fantasia, Dumbo and Bambi. The first Disney I remember seeing when it was actually first released was Peter Pan, but I saw all of them after that until after The Jungle Book. I saw Beauty and the Beast on TV. And I bought several of the Pixar releases, and am a pretty big fan of them.
@KaTrian black cauldron is one of your top five? seriously? Why? I found it so, so dull. None of it made much sense at all! @Tenderiser - Sleeping Beauty was my sister's favourite i liked it but was never in love with it. For me, it was always Aladdin and Lion King, and later Mulan. As a kid i found Peter Pan hilarious and loved it. Jungle Book was dull for me even as a child! @jannert - the Japanese are in a league of their own though. They take their art very seriously. For the directors at Studio Gibhli, they are all about making a good piece of art - something Disney has lost. Mind you though, Miyazaki's later works weren't all that good compared to the older stuff.
I'd put Spirited Away up near the top of Miyazaki's works. My favorites are that one, Kiki's Delivery Service, Princess Mononoke, and My Neighbor Tortoro. If you guys haven't seen any of Hosoda's work, I recommend Wolf Children quite highly, and Summer Wars is also good.
Spirited Away is frigging beautiful. I need to watch it again. Guys, I promise you. I will use the Chosen One mechanic, I will hype the crap out of a character, I will tell the audience that he is going to save the world. And then have him just shot in the face by a henchman. On the very next page. And then the Old Man would just say, "Well shit."
Dumbo was always one of my favorite Disney films. Love it's theme of faith and love. I also liked Sleeping Beauty but now I find that it's got glaring plot holes. If the fairies Flora, Fauna and Merryweather haven't been using their wands for 16 years how in the world do they not know how to bake a cake or make a dress without the use of them? I just recently watched The Black Cauldron last year - creepy! I thought Disney started to slip in the 80s and they haven't recovered. Too pandering to tastes and fads and pc concepts. They used to be creative and daring. I haven't watched a lot of children's films but my favorite in recent years was Wall-e and Toys in the Attic 2009. A character I don't like ... hmmm. I can't recall if I ever answered this thread. I don't know some characters have irritated me namely the Elizabeth and Jessica component in Sweet Valley High. It was worse in Sweet Valley Twins. Elizabeth just let Jessica bowl right over her and never did anything to stop her then she seemed to be disappointed that Jessica was so self centered, and selfish. I always thought is was part of her responsibility to help Jess see that behaving likes a bitch wasn't to be tolerated? And the way the parents looked the other way too was awful. It was the strangest 'clean' children book series every. The mc was a tolerated sociopath.
Medieval fantasy - check Murky castles - check Zombie corpses - check Spunky princess - check Evil witches - check Fucked up scary villain (only to be later surpassed by Frollo) - check I loved it despite its many short-comings. But in the spirit of this thread, it does have a super annoying character: Gurgi. One of the most annoying creatures ever. I dislike self-pitying whiner characters, but I guess, who wouldn't. ..
Omigod, that singing .... at least THAT is something Disney doesn't try to get away with any more. I haven't seen Frozen, and probably won't. I did see Brave, and thought it was fun, but that's mostly because of the Scottish voices and characters and funny asides ..."Ah kin see ma hoose fae here." (An ongoing joke around these parts.) The Pixar movie I really really loved, though, was (and still is) Finding Nemo. Not only beautiful to look at, but fun, funny and scary as well. I bought that on DVD and have watched it many times. Oop ...here I go derailing the thread again....
Finding Nemo is GORGEOUS. Some of the animation is so beautiful I was in awe. What's this thread about again?
Who's Gurgi? Black Cauldron - i tried to watch it again recently and couldn't bring myself to concentrate. And i couldn't quite believe it revolved around a magic pig... Characters i disliked, let's see... I can't think of one right now... i can think of films i don't like (Brave) but no character that would irk me much...
