Cherry House Press... Any thoughts?

Discussion in 'Publishing' started by Alex R. Encomienda, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. TheRealStegblob

    TheRealStegblob Kill All Mages Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Well, they're clearly making an honest attempt at things, at least.. New blood is something the publishing world desperately needs more of and it's a very difficult task to try getting a toehold in the publishing world.

    I think the thing a new publishing house should do is focus on only publishing small things at first, like articles or short poem collections or short stories or something and see if they can find success when it comes to projects that a writer didn't spend over a year of effort on doing with the expectation of hopefully getting an equal payout for the work they did. Starting out small and going right for trying to publish full length books and novels is probably not something that is viable, or safe, to do unless you seriously understand what you're doing.
     
    BayView likes this.
  2. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,026
    Likes Received:
    7,524
    Location:
    California, US
    (emphasis added)

    Yes, just to highlight this--what you need to ensure is that your agreement with the publisher has a reversion of rights in the event they fail to perform adequately (in terms of sales, or however else the parties agree).
     
  3. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,855
    Likes Received:
    11,655
    I agree that these clauses are important, but even when they're present, if the publisher is a pain in the ass about it, the author will have to go to court to enforce the term. Other publishers/Amazon won't get in the middle of a contractual dispute. They want a clear reversion of rights letter/court documents or they won't proceed.

    (I know this because I had a publisher (reputable when I signed with them) who, in the process of going out of business, stopped paying royalties for almost two years. The contracts had reversion of rights clauses in them, but the publisher just refused to engage/admit what was going on. The company finally declared bankruptcy and even THEN the publishers/Amazon wouldn't work with us, not until the original publisher finally gave us our reversion of rights letters.)

    There's a difference between what's legally enforceable and what's enforceable without going to court. And going to court is so damned expensive...
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  4. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,026
    Likes Received:
    7,524
    Location:
    California, US
    Yeah, that's all true as well.

    Setting Amazon aside, I'd just go ahead on the basis of the reversion and let the publisher try to come after me if they thought they could. But there's nothing you can do about Amazon if they balk at it. They don't have a way to verify that the conditions triggering the reversion have been met and wouldn't want to take the time, even if they did.

    In California (and many other states in the U.S.) you could likely file an action for declaratory relief, asking the court to declare that the rights had reverted, and then you'd have a court order, which should satisfy Amazon. That could be relatively inexpensive if the publisher doesn't fight it. If they fight it, it's going to cost.
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  5. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Thinking... Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    15,897
    Likes Received:
    22,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    "They have strange spoons, I don't think we can trust them."

    "You don't trust them because their spoons are different?"

    "Mama always said never trust those with strange spoons."
    :supergrin:
     
  6. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    3,551
    Even in the short time I've been involved with the publishing industry, I've seen firsthand and heard about even more horror stories when smaller publishers have gone down in flames and authors are left high and dry. This is a pretty good summary of what happened in 2016 with All Romance, if you want to see details on what wound up being a very ugly situation when the owners closed up shop and screwed many authors out of royalties and reversal of rights despite having very clear contract terms spelled out.
     
  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin I should have been an astronaut... Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,201
    Likes Received:
    9,385
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    We hope you'll accept ten cents on the dollar and call it a day? Why not a steel gauntlet up the ass while you're at it?
     
    Shenanigator and Cave Troll like this.
  8. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    8,747
    There are many similar horror stories out there in the music industry from when indie labels started by the dozen in the late 90's and started going under in the early to mid 2000's. One band I know was literally stranded out on the road with no way to get home when their label went under. A bunch of us donated money and called in favors to get them and their gear back home. That was over a decade ago and they still don't have their masters. So, yeah, this stuff really can and does happen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  9. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,855
    Likes Received:
    11,655
    The bankruptcy liquidators JUST found assets for ARe - I have no idea how much there is, but I'm definitely filling out my forms to get my share of whatever there is!

    But, yeah, in about eight years of publishing, I've been through this with ARe, Ellora's Cave, Samhain... and none of them were fly-by-night startups. It is HARD to make money in ePublishing. And hard for authors when their publishers fail.
     
    Laurin Kelly likes this.
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    15,992
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Something like that they'd be best off self publishing through create space and KDP ... if they essentially want a book to hold in their hand and give to loved ones and aren't worried about sales or an author career - buy a nice cover from a designer or a template, edit the manuscript to the best of their ability and chuck it on amazon - job done.
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    15,992
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    My suspicion is that there will be enough to cover the liquidators fee, pay the solicitors bill, and possibly to pay the major creditors (ie those with the best lawyers) ... chances are small creditors and authors won't see a bean.

    That tends to be what happens when companies (even huge ones) fold - the UK construction industry is going through it at the moment with Carrillion and the the small firms who are owed money for work done on private contracts have already been told they aren't getting paid - there'll be a lot of folk going out of business as a result (The ones on govt contracts will have their bills covered by the exchequer, but I doubt the govt will see that money back from Carrilion)

    Back when I was a landscape contractor this happened to us - the 2001 FMD epidemic but the company we were subbing for out of business... did we get paid for work done ? Did we fuck. We survived by selling everything that wasn't nailed down and scraping through on small jobs until the epidemic was over - the business wouldn't support us both so I sold my share to my partner for a £1 and went back in to paid employment.

    I digress - main point is that the little guy always gets screwed in liquidations and administrations
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    15,992
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    That kind of thing is pretty common - in the 80s and 90s when a lot of steel works, mines, factories etc were closing the usual form was if you want your full pay you take a cheque (at great risk that it will bounce) if you want cash you take 25% and like it
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  13. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    8,747
    This reminds me of something that happened with that band I knew whose indie label went under:

    If ever any of you, as an author, are ever given something of value from your publisher or agent, publicly document it using the word gift...Post it on your Instagram or whatever with a caption saying something like "Thank you to Publisher X for your generous gift!" or "Wow! Blown away by this generous gift from my agent!" Yeah, it looks like bragging, but it can save your ass later.

    I say this because that indie label had given the guitarist a guitar as a gift, and he had to prove that it had been given to him as a gift and that it was not property of the indie label when the label's assets were seized to satisfy creditors. He was only able to keep that guitar because he'd excitedly emailed a couple of people about it. Had Instagram or Twitter existed at the time, that would have been even better.

    You can imagine the potential ramifications of this...What if it had been a car, that was someone's only mode of transportation? In the case of a writer, what if it's a laptop computer that a writer uses for their current WIP? That could really be bad.

    The band was from CA, if the attorneys in the forum want to weigh in on this. I'm not an attorney.
     
  14. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,026
    Likes Received:
    7,524
    Location:
    California, US
    I made good money through KDP, without even throwing Createspace into the mix. Don’t knock it—it can be a viable route to go.
     
    BayView and Shenanigator like this.
  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    15,992
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Yeah I know that - I'm on Amazon ( I went wide so i'm not in select).... what I meant was its the easiest thing for a one and done writer to do themselves so there's no need for them to go the vanity or micro press route. (I'm distinctly not a one and done which is why I've also gone to kobo, ibooks, torlino etc)
     
    Steerpike and Shenanigator like this.
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    15,992
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    I'm also not an attorney or an accountant - but in the UK that would look like taxable income in kind. Gifts from someone you have a commercial relationship are a minefeild at the best of times. (which is why people often keep them quiet)
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  17. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    8,747
    And as a condition of accepting your money that you earned that is owed to you, you usually have to sign an NDA (non disclosure agreement) prohibiting you from talking about it, so you can't warn other people about the hell you just went through.
     
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    15,992
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Yep.. I possibly may or may not have been through a similar thing in grievance settlement. Generally speaking when you are paid any kind of settlement with an employer you are also forbidden from discussing it ... or at least that is what I may or may not have been told
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  19. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,892
    Likes Received:
    8,747
    True. If it was something that was necessary for my business or life, I'd take the tax hit to hang onto it if the company went under, though.
     
  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    15,992
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    I doubt many publishers give their writers expensive presents anyway so the point is probably moot - the music biz is different.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice