chicken..egg..chicken..egg..chicken??

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by poetryliberates, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. Beowulf

    Beowulf New Member

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    an egg is just a bloted cell with half the genetic information necissary to creat life, so clearly the egg came first. Just like how Prokaryotic cells came before Eukariotic cells.
     
  2. The Freshmaker

    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

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    :eek: THANK YOU!
     
  3. poetryliberates

    poetryliberates Banned

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    so your saying one fine sunny day, an egg slowly evolved out of nothing, creating alone, a chicken, and that chicken went on to produce other chickens, with no fertalisation whatsoever, if thats the case, then tell my why these days, the egg has to be fertalised in order to hatch?
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Banned

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    Interesting. I think we have to look first at what the question is. Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

    Now, it's implied in the question that the egg we're talking about here is a chicken's egg, not a dinosaur's egg or a reptile's egg or any other kind of egg, but an egg produced by a chicken and capable, in theory, of maturing into another chicken.

    Sure, if we assume that the question is asking about 'an egg' rather then 'the egg', in other words if we're not fussy about the type of egg we're talking about, then we can find all kinds of possible answers, but these tell us nothing about the question. It's an issue of logic at stake here, and the implication that the egg belongs to a chicken is clear in the question. We must assume, then, that the only answers we're interested in are those from people who have intellectually grasped the necessity of the egg belonging to, and being capable of maturing into, a chicken. All other answers, though amusing, are irrelevant.

    Your point about the rooster, while true, is also irrelevant. It's implied in the question that there must be a rooster somewhere, and it really doesn't matter where as far as the logic of the question is concerned. Apply the rooster wherever it fits, but it doesn't define the answer.

    I agree, the chicken into which the egg develops would not be able to reproduce further without a rooster. The rooster is there, but not essential for the logic issue at hand.

    Either the chicken came first, and the rooster did the business, producing the egg, or the egg came first, developed into a chicken, and the rooster did the business. The question doesn't depend on when the rooster appears, it's there when we need it.

    I think we're getting closer to an answer, don't you?

    Cheers,
    Rob
     
  5. crazycat007

    crazycat007 New Member

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    holy toledo and a bleeding half, this is confusing! everyone has a totally legit point. so i say that *Wham* out of nowhere came both a chicken and an egg. it was a girl chicken, who patiently sat on the egg until it hatched. the chick was a boy. then, the two reproduce. there's no rationaly thought behind any of this. it makes no sence. if you want my honest opinion, then i say egg. but yeah. there's my miraculous explaination.
     
  6. Onoria Westhrop

    Onoria Westhrop New Member

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    Evolution does some crazy stuff. There was a cool news story about a female komodo dragon in an English zoo. All alone, no mates. She becomes pregnant, and lays a batch of fertile eggs. All male. Apparently, lizards can, under dire cirumstances, reproduce without a mate...then, mate with their own young: incest is better than extinction.
    So, no the eggs do not need to be fertilized.

    However, that's probably beside the point. The problem most people have with this is one of definitions.
    The main problem with the debate here is that people have this inflexible idea of what a 'chicken' is. After all, a lizard doesn't just wake up one day, lay an egg and then BAM chicken.
    Chickens are all a little bit different to each other. Turkeys are like chickens, but a little bit different. You get variations in the dna....Things differing by minute degrees. What DNA makes an animal a chicken and not a really similar looking bird?

    Eggs predate chickens because they exist in all kinds of species. Chicken eggs only come into existence after you have an animal that you are willing to say meets the definition of the word 'chicken' - which if you think about it, is not that different to the (genetic) definition of a whole bunch of animals that are by minute degrees, different to each other.

    Answer: The Chicken is just a definition - not a rule of nature.
     
  7. Mike R

    Mike R New Member

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    We need to clear up whether the egg in question belongs to the critter that laid it or the critter that hatched out of it?
     
  8. Max Vantage

    Max Vantage Banned

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    It's evolution, baby!

    The egg came from the chicken. So where did the chicken come from? Yup, an egg - but only AFTER the chicken's earliest decendants had the ability to produce them. So a chicken is bound to have evolved from another form at one time so didn't just 'fall from the sky'.

    Life evolves from snot (or plasma-type substance, if you like.)
    In this snot houses all the genetic and DNA evidence needed to form an organism. It's a natural process that we haven't yet found the ultimate source but some have theorised that all early life formed first of all in the ocean as marine life.
    But from this 'snot' comes different life hence the many varied creatures we have that evolve through different forms. Through thousands and even millions of years animals can and do evolve into different species and produce offspring in differing ways. Some look similar whereas others appear to have no connection whatsoever.
    When they are fully formed in their ealiest stages then they are able to mass produce on their own accord, thus eggs coming from a chicken only after the first form chicken being developed by nature.

    What is nature? Damned if I know.
    Science will find the answers to life's most perplexing questions sooner or later.
    Religion has no interest in facts, hence all this Adam and Eve rubbish.

    Humans are theoretically evolved from ape.
    Then ape came from an unspecified land creature which developed ways of being able to climb trees to evade predators evolving it into ape.
    Before that came the lizard-type creature into unspecified land creature.
    Before that came Mr. Fish which jumped ashore and evolved into Mr. lizard.
    Before Mr. fishy came Dr. Plankton.
    Before Dr. Plankton came snot.
    Etc.
    Etc.

    All theory, mind. Nothing as yet proven.

    So in short, the chicken came first, but not in the current form that we see.
     
  9. Bluemouth

    Bluemouth Contributor Contributor

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    I can agree with that post.
     
  10. Crazy Ivan

    Crazy Ivan New Member

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    I say chicken.

    Just CUZ, that's why! SHEESH! =P
     
  11. Max Vantage

    Max Vantage Banned

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    I say scrambled eggs on toast.

    What say you to that, eh? Aye, or nay?
     
  12. Max Vantage

    Max Vantage Banned

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    As an aside (if the evolution theory is correct); we evolved from water to land. Then land to trees. And because evolution demanded that we couldn't develop any further we never grew wings to evolve to the sky, so now we're back on land in our current form.

    Makes one wonder how we're going to evolve once we start emigrating to space...;) :eek: :)
     
  13. Bluemouth

    Bluemouth Contributor Contributor

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    And then once we've established ourselves in space we'll want to venture further. That's how we'll discover the mysteries of wormholes etc. and take ourselves to other ends of the universe where finally we may meet other life forms. How exciting. :D
     
  14. Max Vantage

    Max Vantage Banned

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    And I have just packed me bags ready for the trip! :D
     
  15. Traci

    Traci New Member

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    so then it will be which came first..the chicken or the wormhole?

    Only we won't be typing it in a forum because i don't think we'll have fingers then..

    ...there is too much unproved in evolution.. i have to go with a miracle.. i say the chicken came first..
     
  16. Axis

    Axis New Member

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    A hawk that had mated with a pidgeon.
     
  17. poetryliberates

    poetryliberates Banned

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    where did the hawk and pidgeon come from?
     
  18. Axis

    Axis New Member

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    They both evolved from dinosaurs.
     

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