Goodness Gracious Me. This circular argument. PLEASE. For the love of all things holy. WE'VE ALREADY SAID THAT. And the poster above you never mentioned America. He obviously stated it was a UN decision that effected some nations (some of which were listed for you). It is likely not to pass THIS TIME under THIS NAME. That's not what's disturbing us. Haven't we been over this? The protest helped. Public outrage IS a determining factor in the way YOUR REPRESENTATIVE votes. If you truly don't think so, you were silly to sign the petition. It was a waste of your time. Please, re-direct in a way that hasn't already been discussed pages ago. It takes up space.
I didn't go through the fineprint Thirdwind - just that the UN agreed the internet is a human right and america agreed - nothing else. Of course what countries agree to, and what they go home and do, are two completely different things
And for anyone who is like, "why is this girl so adamant?", I apologize. It's mostly because this is a deeply personal issue. Securities is my work, protecting rights is my charge as a human being. CISPA merges the two, and the discussions always get sooooo sidetracked by people trying to make nil points. I love discussion. I hate repetition. Look at the facts, add something new to the discussion, voice your opinions and doubts but if they are worked through then please move on to another talking point. There is so much to say about this that gets lost in the muddle of screaming voices. I'm upset I added to that, but when it involves family and friends... I just hope you accept my sincere apology. The last thing I want to do is waste your time. Time is more precious even than privacy. There are links with facts, for those interested, that back up what was said here. All of this from a post by 22yr old with a bone disease who lost her friend in January and was sad.
He said that the UN resolution was supported by America, and he's right. But I just wanted to make sure to clarify that America supporting a resolution doesn't necessarily mean it will become law. Sure, I agree the protest helped, though I don't think it helped as much as people are saying. I don't have any proof of this, but it's sort of like the Occupy movement, which had little to no effect on the policies that the people were actually protesting about. It did, however, influence a couple of smaller laws, so I guess it's a small victory. The problem with protests is that interest tends to drop over time. I think that's part of the reason why people aren't protesting CISPA like they did SOPA. Yeah, OK. I just wanted to clarify that it's not a law here. I know that some countries have started the process of making internet a right. I actually think France is one of those countries. I remember hearing something about that a few months ago. Do you know anything about it?
I want to help you understand. I really do. If you won't respond to fact or use it, I don't know how to. Protesting is more about getting information OUT. Which it does. Which the occupy movement did, as you know, since you heard so much about it. Protesting is a time honored effective method of radical action. Don't take my word, take history's. It's not that interest wanes over time, it's that people sign and move on with their busy, busy lives, as intended. There is MORE than protesting going on to combat CISPA. The real problem begins when people get overwhelmed and discouraged, as you feel. It's not protesting that doesn't work, it's people saying things like "it's hopeless."
Yes, I agree. But getting information out there and changing policies are two different things. In some cases it works. In some cases it doesn't. The Occupy movement didn't really work (as in, it didn't accomplish what it set out to do). Signing and moving on isn't a protest. And yes, interest does wane over time. This happened with the Occupy movement, and this happened with protests about Wikileaks. I think after a certain point signing petitions and organizing protests doesn't help. There are other factors at play here (like lobbyists) that I think are more influential. Like what?
Here's a link, to your "Like what" comment. A link I've already posted. But when you signed the petition you should have gotten an email about further action that says it better than this third party info. http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/spxx4/this_is_cispa_explained_sopa_was_meant_to_stop/ A protest (also called a remonstrance or remonstration) is an expression of objection, by words or by actions, to particular events, policies or situations. Everything else, because you are wasting time (and writing about what you 'think' and passing it off as valid counterpoint to invalid arguments) you can look up on your own. I've already said it. If you need more info, don't come to me for it. You won't take any of my words and you only half-respond to what I've posted. To be honest, I'm getting a bit confused about what this has to do with the original post (again, about MY feelings, not about some call to action). If you want information, I'll give it. But you have to DO something with it. To ignore half of what was said, re-state old questions and edify already touched on points is just page eater. Keeps this post at the top, which helps.
France tends to purposely do what America tells them not to. Under Sarkozy, Obama ordered the shutting down of The Pirate Bay and all similar sites. France ruled in favour of freedom of speech and the freedom to share which really pissed America off. The prosecuting team hired by Hollywood Inc. pushed for illegal downloaders to be banned from Internet use - this was the straw that broke the camel's back because in 2009, the High Court of France ruled that Internet access was indeed a basic human right that could not be taken away from anyone. "France: In June 2009, the Constitutional Council, France's highest court, declared access to the Internet to be a basic human right in a strongly-worded decision that struck down portions of the HADOPI law, a law that would have tracked abusers and without judicial review automatically cut off network access to those who continued to download illicit material after two warnings[15]"
The next steps involve calling people and signing more petitions. I'd consider that to be part of the protest. Well, I don't have statistics to show that petitions and protests aren't always effective. All I can do is provide examples. When I said that I think other factors are more influential, it was simply my opinion based on my knowledge of how the political process works. Again, I don't have statistics or studies to show that other factors are more influential than protests (I'm sure there are some out there), but you don't have stats or studies disproving it, either. Hence, the "my opinion." I've responded to everything you've said. That includes your original post and every post after that. No, I just like to argue. You'd be surprised. What's wrong with visiting another member's profile? Besides, a lot of your posts in this thread include links to other sites, so I was making sure you aren't a spammer (considering you're a new member). I'm just following the course of the thread. What we're discussing does have something to do with the original post, so I'm not going off topic.
I do not feel overwhelming hopelessness. I'm writing a novel, that's one of my actions for change. As for this legislation, with all due respect for your passion, I find the following a more reasoned discussion of the bill without all the 'end of the world as we know it' hyperbole: Is CISPA SOPA 2.0? We Explain the Cybersecurity Bill Fascinating site here I could send a Tweet to Pelosi without even signing in to my account. Maybe I never signed out? As for the political actions, I've been involved in my local Congressperson's election for years. We almost got the a.hole Reichert out when the state gerrymandered the districts to give him a safer seat. If you want to have a bigger effect on our screwed up government, consider working on correcting the gerrymandering that came with the 2010 Census. Cheers Ginger
[sidetrack] Without going more than a post or two because it's off topic, did you or did you not support Sarkozy's burqa ban? Just curious given our other discussion on ethnic bigotry in the other thread. [/sidetrack] Feel free to answer in a PM if you prefer. Or you can ignore the question, no judgement for declining implied.
That's the same reason i wrote my novel, the one i posted the video about. And the overwhelming hopelessness was in reference to the comment above yours (i guess, the comment in response to yours) Also I've posted links that back me up with facts, so how is that hyperbole? Thanks again for joining the discussion I began. Thanks for the additional links. Since you had so many questions 1 day ago, I'm glad you're taking time to explore it further. And no one said anything about end of the world anything. How did you get that from the people who stated IT WASN'T LIKELY TO PASS? I get that you all want to contribute. I'm glad. But you aren't being constructive by posting statements prior to investigation. I do this everyday, with coworkers. This isn't my first discussion about CISPA (though this is the first so misguided and off topic).
Not sure how exactly you went from CISPA to Burka ban / bigotry but I like your fighting style Also I'm sure the OP doesn't want her thread hi-jacked so pm on its way...
Thanks for checking. Thanks goodness for people paranoid enough to police (with the intent to use it against someone). You haven't responded to everything fully (and when you did, it was with your own opinion, which isn't what I want/need). You are simply talking to talk. Which is fine, but when people actually have questions please don't respond like you have fact unless you actually do. Just move on.
No, this is fine! I'm ok with discussions about topics that are adjacent, just not with same topic facts that derailing the conversation that was happening. Talk away! Again, sorry to be so polarizing. Never my intention. In fact, were it not for a few people, it wouldn't have to be this way. But, such is history.
Guess the quibble I had was with "overwhelming". For me, "Until the masses wake up (if they do)", didn't imply they never would.
OK, if you want me to clarify something and/or respond to something, ask me again, and I'll happily do it. The whole point of this thread was to share your opinion about CISPA. So why can't I share my opinion? You exaggerated some of the details. First, this isn't a violation of the Fourth Amendment (I've already given the reason for that). Second, the part about Google "reading" your email to customize ads has very little to do with CISPA. That's an issue that deals with generating revenue for the company; the government doesn't benefit from that. Lastly, you mentioned people being "arrested and investigated daily," which is an exaggeration. The people who have been arrested so far face piracy and copyright charges (that I know of). The whole thing with Aaron Swarz was unfortunate, and I do sympathize with him and his supporters. But that's a copyright issue, not a CISPA issue.
I have to correct you here and this is a double edged sword for both Google and the user. I sent my friend a joke about a certain little blue pill that some men need. This guy goes to Thailand, hires a hooker blah blah blah. My friend uses gmail. (I have gmail but prefer to use hotmail). Anyway, since then he has been plagued with ads from google about buying counterfeit viagara from Thailand. Google are advertising contraband. If this info is passed onto the govt they have 2 victims to chase; google and my friend. The govt always have something to profit from.
NO THAT WAS NOT THE REASON FOR THIS POST. It wasn't so much about opinion, it was about a real act that really just passed that I was upset about for LEGITIMATE REASONS. It was also about a novel I'd written, which the video explained and on and on and on. Re-read, please. Again, these details are not exaggerated. It IS a violation, (already explained why, THE 4TH AMENDMENT WAS PUT IN PLACE TO PROTECT US FROM THE GOVERNMENT COLLECTING INFORMATION, which will happen, through a third party. Semantics.) If you don't believe me, ask the CISPA supporters. THIS IS FACT. HERE'S A QUOTE, SINCE YOU WON'T DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK: http://www.zdnet.com/cispa-passes-u-s-house-death-of-the-fourth-amendment-7000014205/ Obviously, it's a side-step obstruction to the 4th Amendment. OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL, GONE AND NOT A FREAKING ACT BEING VOTED ON IN CONGRESS. If you don't see this is a work around, other people see for you. Thank god. Google uses data collection for advertising. How does CISPA, an act that dumbs regulations on that very issue, not relate? The government isn't the only entity buying your information. DO YOU RESEARCH. Or, click the links I've provided Aaron SWARTZ (with a T, Jesus Christ) was opposing bills like SOPA. Which was copy-write law in disguise. But again, this is common knowledge. And if you don't know PLEASE (be an adult and just admit it). People are being investigated daily. You said so yourself when you agreed that information is being looked into. Your msgs are scanned, searched and stored for FURTHER investigation. There have already been posts with links to ACTUAL people being arrested. Just because you don't hear about something (or don't pay attention when someone else does) doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Also, if you read, this whole time I've focused on CISPA for ADVERTISING PURPOSES. But the fact that you don't/ didn't know that people are being arrested (NOT FOR PIRACY, for comments they posted on various sites. Comments that earlier were said couldn't be traced. Comments that earlier were said, EVEN AFTER I POSTED LINKS THAT CLEARLY STATE WHAT I THOUGHT WAS COMMON KNOWLEDGE that your address and phone number CAN be collected via IP, needed to be readdressed. For future discretion, opinion is welcome. Questions about FACT should be answered with FACT. You said you like to argue. Please don't drag a dead kids name around for fun. He was a personal friend, as I've mentioned. I don't know what supporters you're referring to. He only passed in Jan.
SI, are the people being arrested that you speak of, being arrested for copyright infringement for downloading materials, or for something else? I thought Aaron's act of civil disobedience made sense. He downloaded scientific journals and made them available to the public. While I respect people's right to their discoveries, a lot of published science is not protected because the scientist is protecting intellectual property, rather, there is a whole industry funded by the pharmaceutical industry and these journals for "reprints". The journals make money, the pharmaceutical companies exercise control over the research, but the actual researchers are not typically in the money loop. (This is not 100% the case when it comes to research copyrights, but it is significant.) But I don't want someone stealing my book, I'm guessing you wouldn't either. So when I hear about these copyright cases, I think you have to look at them on a case by case basis.
Something else, as I said, for comments/msgs on various sites. If you go back, because I honestly can't anymore, there'll be a post with info detailing arrests (not mine, it was erebh providing awesome stuff) But seriously, the Aaron stuff JUST HAPPENED. Even the people who "got the call" in Jan don't know the full story, as tons is being withheld because people are worried about culpability). We DO know he was pressured, receiving death threats and threats to spill information about his family for those documents he took. We do know he did it to inform, empower and help people. We do know it was a factor that cost him his life. I don't want to speak on this anymore. It breaks my heart. On and off note, the arrest thing really isn't just a CISPA issue. That's a pre-CISPA issue, as well as a public sphere issue, which I've already said, needs different, more structured legislation to be effective. That is, however, the sort of thing that congress would like you to think this act is for to garner support. They'd like you to think, for obvious reasons, its being put in place to protect people. There are already laws in place to prosecute copywriters. There are already ways to track them. Here's the trouble with CISPA or SOPA being labeled as copywrite law defenders: CISPA tracks information after the fact. Your book would already be stolen, they would just be able to retrieve it faster and without warrants or without informing the person they are reading/scanning and holding their information. Someone could print it and copy it and distribute it before they physically picked him up. The government might not be so concerned with finding that guy though, since they'll be busy sorting through bigger, suspected terrorist-y things (and the corps will be looking for market research, while also profiting off of handing info to the gov), so I'm not sure how much help they'll be with that information. Copywrite law is already functional. There will always be thieves, no matter what the consequence for stealing. I guarantee you this is less about copywrite than it is about data collection for money (which keeps GOOGLE running to take more from you under the guise of saying BUT IT'S FREE!!!)
She just never gives up, does she? lol. People are not being arrested for comments posted online. PERIOD. This whole 'Google dark fiber' stuff is conspiracy theory 100%. AT&T buys just as much 'dark fiber' as Google. Just calling something dark brings to mind secret conspiracy thoughts. Look, the government is NOT out to get you. Google is NOT out to get you. If you break the law by downloading child porn, you should be arrested. If you publically admit committing a crime, you should be investigated. If you break into a computer network and steal things you would normally have to pay for, you should be arrested. Now everyone, please, put down the tinfoil hats and snap back to reality. Good lord. ~ J. J.
Hi again! Um guy, we already posted links. You'll have to disprove every one of them if you want to say that. Thanks.
Arguing fact with nothing is soo pointless. Especially against a 22 yr old who is stuck in a bed right now I'm just glad for the first page bumps. As a courtesy, I will be here to post facts for those interested.
