Concern over depiction

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by King Arthur, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    The Colour Purple is a masterpiece and treats a father raping his teenage daughter as mundane, both parties also think it's mundane.
     
  2. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    One isn't expected to sympathize with the father though, as I recall.
     
    BayView likes this.
  3. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    I'd rather call it advice.

    I want to show the brutality and ruthlesness of war and it's consequences, and the grey and evil side of humanity. But also redemption in many different ways.
     
  4. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    I don't think "understated horror" is the same thing as "mundane". If anyone comes out of reading The Color Purple thinking that what happened to Celie was anything but horrible, I think they missed the point.
     
  5. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    Yeah. And Celie takes a lot of it to protect her little sister, doesn't she?
     
    BayView likes this.
  6. Feo Takahari

    Feo Takahari Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    282
    Location:
    Just above the treetops
    Your analogy to The Colour Purple might work better than I thought, though you'll need to work hard on it. The Colour Purple is about the oppression of African-American women, and just because the characters take rape as normal doesn't mean the story treats it as acceptable. If your story is about what war does to people, rape and other abuses of force are part and parcel of that. I'd even advise going beyond a mention--not necessarily depicting it "onscreen," but digging into why rape occurs and how it fits into the larger picture of wartime cruelty.
     
  7. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    This has just turned into beside-the-point derailing.

    Also, a lot of double-standards. Murder can be heroic and good, and more importantly mentioned casually and mundanely, yet rape, an act that CAN be considered less evil than murder should not?
     
    Archnenna likes this.
  8. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    So is this another of your threads that's posed as a question but is really just a statement?

    Maybe next time you could say: "I'm going to include rape in my novel. I don't care what you say. Please discuss."
     
  9. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    If anyone thinks me mentioning something that did happen is bad, then I might as well rename myself Winston Smith.
     
  10. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    Fuck off.
     
  11. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    I wouldn't see murder as heroic or good.

    But I do think there's a difference between killing out of a sense of necessity and becoming sexually aroused by violence against women. The first, I can believe could be necessary. The second? Pointless, disgusting brutality, and I'm not going to sympathize with any character who commits rape.
     
  12. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    Yes, that would be another more honest way for you to open a thread.

    Just start with "Fuck off", and then we can take it from there.
     
  13. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    Which is a black and white view.
     
  14. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    I wasn't joking. If you don't like my thread, get the fuck out.
     
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    A thread isn't "yours" just because you start it. This is a forum. Next time just write your opinion on a note and tape it to your refrigerator. I assume you live alone. Problem solved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  16. Feo Takahari

    Feo Takahari Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    282
    Location:
    Just above the treetops
    From the sounds of it, your characters would be raping civilians captured during the fighting. The most direct analogy would be to slaughtering civilians for fun. There are ways to make indiscriminate killing understandable within the context of the times, but if you're trying to be "casual" about slaughtering civilians, you've already got a pretty big problem on your hands.
     
  17. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    Oh no, I was just pointing out double standards. I view both and hope to portray both as sick acts of human nature that should never be commited.
     
  18. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    So what WERE you looking for when you started the thread?

    It was going reasonably smoothly as long as everyone agreed that rape would be fine - I disagreed, and everything went bad for you? I think I've suggested it before - there are people who are posting progress journals and what-not when they just want to be enthusiastic about their projects. Maybe that's what you're looking for. Not a discussion thread, where people will, very likely, discuss the questions you ask in your OP.
     
  19. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    You know that's not what happened.
     
  20. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    No, I don't know. I genuinely don't know why you're upset.

    ETA: Okay, I re-read, and I see that you got upset when I suggested you weren't really looking for a discussion.

    But... WERE you really looking for a discussion?
     
  21. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    117
    Of course.
     
  22. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    So...? When did the discussion turn into a "beside-the-point derailing"?

    ETA: You're confusing people (me, and I think others) with your distinction between "what people would think of it" and "whether it should be included or not". How can we discuss the second issue without giving our opinions of the first?
     
  23. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,595
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I'm not sure I'd call murder heroic or good under most circumstances, but at least it is easy to see why someone might resort to it. It can be rooted in understandable, perhaps even noble motives. Rape on the other hand is pretty much always motivated by a desire for power/control and to some degree or another sexual lust. These selfish motives are a great deal harder to sympathize with, and I'm probably never going to like a character who raped someone.
     
    Lyrical, Lifeline, T.Trian and 3 others like this.
  24. Feo Takahari

    Feo Takahari Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    282
    Location:
    Just above the treetops
    I remember an entry on TV Tropes that might be relevant. In regard to the 1960s Spartacus movie:

     
  25. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,676
    Likes Received:
    3,056
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY

    Alexander the Great took many of his enemies to task, so to speak.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice