Confusion over passive voice, is it personal choice?

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Gloria Sythe, Jul 26, 2014.

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  1. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think not knowing the proper terminology means we'll be writing crap. I don't know the names of all the machines I work on, any more than I knew the convoluted titles of some departments I reported to at another job. I do, however, know how they work. I can explain what they do and how. I can use them effectively. And I can teach that to others.
     
  2. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    Hear, hear! Rules, if they are to be actual rules, should not be based on opinion.

    Not only that, but whether or not the passive is ugly or weak depends greatly on the context. In another thread (one dealing with syllabic feet and style), I used a music example to make this point:
    Be very suspicious of any aesthetic rule that ignores context. Think in terms of paragraphs, or whole passages, rather than sentences.
     
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  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It's also just lazy advice-giving, TBO. Like saying a comma goes everywhere you pause in speech. No it doesn't! Have you ever met a 'dramatic pauser'? I have. That person's comma key would go dead within a week of typing. Blankly saying don't use the passive is like saying all the digits from 0 to 9 are fine to use, but not 4. Never 4. 4 is a terrible number and to be avoided at all costs. Use 5 instead. See how much more powerful 5 is? It gets you one more than with 4 and it has a curvy belly where 4 is just a badly drawn triangle. If 5 doesn't work, go with 3. You don't get the extra one like with 5, but you get two curvy bellies. Everyone likes a curvy belly, so two is even better! Nonsense. Syntactic structures don't have a goodness or a badness, they have a when-to-use-ness.
     
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  4. JamesBrown

    JamesBrown Active Member

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    Ok, the machines can be fixed by you, their names are known by you and your mind is thus enabled to rectify the problem. It is agreed that, in such circumstances, in-depth technical knowledge does not need to be understood by you.

    But the machines are made by someone, and the laws and principles behind the machine need to be understood by them. The process of creativity can only be helped by such knowledge.
     
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  5. JamesBrown

    JamesBrown Active Member

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    No one is saying that. I just did a spell/grammar check using Word on the first couple of chapters of a novel I'm writing. It picked up around 25 instances of using the passive voice, advising me to consider revising it. I revised none. Half of them weren't even passive tenses, but past participles used as adjectives, and for the other half the use of the passive was perfectly correct. It is the inappropriate use of it which a writer needs to guard against, unless they particularly want to create a certain kind of feel.
     
  6. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Frankly, I've seen more new writers give up because of this sort of "knowledge" than being told to just give it a shot. They get sooooo concerned about doing it "right" that they can't do it at all. If a person knows basic grammar, the rest can wait - and usually for a very long time.
     
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  7. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm fairly prescriptive, but I still think that the issue of passive voice is overblown. It's a style issue rather than a correctness issue. And more importantly, people just don't use it that often. The time and effort spent by people twisting their sentences inside out to eliminate "passive voice" that was never there in the first place could be spent on improving their writing in real ways.
     
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  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I agree. Passive voice. It's just another faddy buzzword phrase these days, isn't it. Don't use passive voice. Eliminate all -ly words. Tsk, you're filtering. Don't use adjectives. Never write a prologue. Create a clever hook to start your story. Buzz buzz buzzzzz...

    My own theory is that these buzzwords and buzzword phrases promise shortcuts to good-enough-to-get-published writing–but not much more. They don't take in the scope of what good writing can be. A good writer has to bring everything to bear, not just basic grammar and a few no-no's. In addition to being aware of buzzwordy pitfalls, writers need to use their vocabulary, listen to the sound of their words, understand how certain words and images resonate with readers and always choose the right one, understand pacing, feel their characters and situations deeply, have the soul of a storyteller AND acquire the ability to communicate strongly to their readers. It's a long, intense process.

    A few buzzwords and easy shortcuts aren't going to do more than help you churn out passable and quickly forgettable writing. If that's good enough, fair enough.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
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  9. John Krone

    John Krone New Member

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    It's a matter of emphasis. The emphasis is switched, when switching from active to passive. There will be times when that becomes very important. Very.

    Susy drank the cup of poisoned coffee.
    The cup of poisoned coffee was drank, by Susy.

    In the 2nd example above, the suspense is held until the very last word "Susy". If there were multiple characters present, then it's a powerful way to keep the reader interested in the sentence, until the very last word.

    The first example, reveals the victim, on the first word, "Susy". So immediately the reader begins to lose interest. The sentence (in this case) holds no punch.

    Maybe following the emphasis would help determine whether a sentence is passive or active?
    John
     

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