Tags:
  1. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA

    Cover Art

    Discussion in 'Cover Design' started by J.D. Ray, May 14, 2020.

    I hunted around for a source for cover art, and was disappointed to find that book cover artists want more for their efforts than I might end up making on publication of the work itself. Oh, sure, an unknown novelist right out of the gate could hit it big, or even small-scale sales over time might make more than I expect, but let’s face it: revenues are usually hobby-level income, at least for those of us without a certain measure of fame who are self-publishing.

    So I took a stab at creating something myself. Feedback was... well, let’s just say people were searching for something nice to say and coming up short. Check my blog if you’re interested, but my wife probably summed it up best: “It looks like a travel guide.” Ouch.

    So, back to searching. I start all my searches for visual artists on DeviantArt, which hosts work from rank amateurs to mainstream professionals. Reviews, feedback, helpful hints, tips and tricks; they’re all there. Sound familiar?

    One of the artists I follow there is Francois Beauregard (https://www.deviantart.com/built4ever), an architectural designer and fantasy artist who has done work for Wizards of the Coast, among others. Several years ago, I had reached out to him about commissioning a study for a house I was designing. The project never got off the ground, so I didn’t go any further with him, but continued to follow his work.

    A week or so ago, I reached out again and told him what I needed. He insists that he’s not really a cover artist, but my issue is dealing with the artistic background image, not doing typesetting and page layout. I sent him a few shekels via PayPal to get started, and with just his “napkin sketches” based on descriptive text I’ve sent him, I’m already refining my visualization of the setting, tuning up some of my descriptions, and making corrections (he pointed out an historic inaccuracy in something I wrote).

    The price we agreed on for a cover-worthy drawing was affordable, so I asked about a few other drawings, all affordable as well. It looks like I am going to get a package of art to festoon my novels (two are planned), including a map. I’m very excited.

    Check out Fran’s work, and if you like it, reach out to him. And browse the other work on DeviantArt. It’s a great site. Note, though, that you might want to hit the checkbox to limit mature content, as some of the work, including photography, is definitely NSFW.

    What resources do you use for cover art?
     
  2. Madman

    Madman Life is Sacred Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    1,429
    Location:
    Sweden
    My book series is my dream work, almost everything I do, I do to further that work. I want to realise my dream world. So I am working with an illustrator for some art pieces to use in my book. Singed a contract with one a few days ago, first picture will cost me around 600 Euro and that is just one picture, it is for these types of things that I have saved some money.

    I can't paint at all, so I really have no other option, sure I could check for a cheaper source, but I like paying a fair wage for a fair job.

    My expectations for my own success are rather low, I have plenty of problems with the language I'm writing in (English). So I don't expect to make that money back, but what is more important for me is that I tried, and perhaps I will succeed in at least recreating the world that is in my head, which will be further realised with the help of some illustrations.

    Some people like to buy houses and cars, I like to buy pictures of my world. Maybe I'm making mistakes with my priorities?

    But I love my hobby!
     
    Xoic, J.D. Ray and Steve Rivers like this.
  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    23,826
    Likes Received:
    20,818
    Location:
    El Tembloroso Caribe
    1) There are any number of sites that offer cover art services. Trawl them. Do NOT steal from them, but note the trends, the looks, the templates and setups that are happening now. Conversely, you can trawl Amazon for your genre of story and do the same, take note of what's happening right now.

    2) If you're going to do it yourself, get comfortable with the finer points of Photoshop or GIMP. I use the latter. It's free and legal shareware. I can't imagine life without it. You'll need to learn more than just the basics. Some amazing things can be made to happen just by playing with the layer modes, and that's but one of a bewildering array of tools.

    I don't pretend that this is award-winning, but I did make it myself after a $10.00 investment in the licenced image you'll note within the whole.
     
  4. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    4,301
    Location:
    Wonderland
    When I took a stab at paranormal romance I had to buy covers. I searched high and low and eventually realized a lot of designers have moved their main base of operations to Facebook groups. There are groups where multiple cover artists can post and then usually private groups hosted by each designer where they sell at discounted prices. That's where I found the most extensive and best range of options.

    Now I'm trying to make all of my own. Just minor photo manipulation stuff (I'm no artist). Luckily I'm now in genres where that's possible and I'm spending pennies to make it.

    Also, anyone interested in cover design or just getting access to stock photos for formatting flourishing or what have you. There's a great deal at appsumo $39/100 photos at depositphotos (https://appsumo.com/depositphotos/).
     
  5. Steve Rivers

    Steve Rivers Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Location:
    In a tent built out of facemasks
    I'm making my own, since ive not only been using programs like photoshop since I was a kid, but i also am a dab hand at professional 3d modelling software.

    I understand why your wife said that, too. The original focuses too much on the setting and not the idea of the story.

    I think you have to be very genre-focused when you look to your cover, and ask "Does this say 'Sci-fi?' 'Does this say Horror?' 'Does this say Political Thriller?' etc etc
    Yours being time travel is probably harder to define, since although you'd say "ooh, time travel - Scifi" your story isn't really (as far a I've gathered) so much about the technical aspects or the technology of it, but the human story behind it.

    The cliche trope of a cover for time travel (i imagine, i dont think I've ever read a time travel story... woah) is probably people with echo images after them or something. So I hope its not too on the nose like that, heh. I'm looking forward to seeing what your artist comes up with.

    I think the pricing is also just a trade-off really depending on how much you're prepared to spend to get your "baby" out there. Because although im going to try and make mine look great on my own, im still going to spend money advertising it and promoting it places, balancing that out for me not spending anything on the cover.

    Because I think the important thing to remember most - is that if your book does end up doing great things, sales wise, you can always go back later and upload a new cover image.
    To me, book covers are great, and they do entice in readers, but not as much as when they used to stand on bookshelves and had to compete with thousands of other books. Nowadays, you're trying to squint your eyes at a small thumbnail to begin with, and most people look at the review scores first.
     
  6. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    I made my first book's cover art with GIMP, but it isn't the best.
    Suppose I will have to work on it for my next book. :)
     
    Xoic and Steve Rivers like this.
  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,255
    Likes Received:
    19,879
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Oh, I think you deserve an award... not sure which, but something is in order.

    Overall, though, the cover is not something you want to skimp on if you're presenting yourself as a business worthy of accepting money. You're already at a disadvantage going up against professionals in the market, and there's sooooooo much dogshit out there already. The reputations of all the amateurs that have before you are a massive hurdle to overcome, regardless of how good you are.
     
    Cave Troll and J.D. Ray like this.
  8. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    I use GIMP. I have skills sufficient to do a certain amount of layout, typesetting, and the like. My struggle is knowing what to craft. My visual artistry skills were never good, and have waned over the years.
     
    Cave Troll likes this.
  9. The Piper

    The Piper Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    517
    Location:
    Norfolk
    I quite enjoy making my own covers, and I don't think they're shockingly bad. I just don't get enough opportunities to practice with the speed I write!! I'd love to do some for other authors somewhere down the line.

    Couldn't attach the images because the files were too big but they're down here somewhere (the ones nearer the bottom of that page are the more recent and hopefully better but I'll leave that to your judgement!):

    https://nickharper.pb.design/bookcoversnickharper
    [​IMG]
     
    J.D. Ray and Cave Troll like this.
  10. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    4,301
    Location:
    Wonderland
    I looked at your cover on your blog. Overall, I'd say I didn't really understand what your story was from the cover. Which is the cover's main purpose. Steve Rivers is right in that you should study the covers in your intended market and you should copy them, to a degree. That way readers know what they are being sold. They can look at the cover and say: "Oh this is a time travel adventure/romance" or something like that. You aren't making art, you're making packaging. It's the biggest passive marketing you'll do for the book. I didn't use much visual artistry when I made my covers. I looked at the successful ones in my subgenre and used them as a template, inserting my own specific details.
     
    Xoic, Homer Potvin, J.D. Ray and 2 others like this.
  11. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    953
    I pay for covers from professional cover artists. They know what sells in my genre and a couple of hundred dollars is nothing compared to the good it will do my book. I've been working with one artist for years and they have never steered me wrong yet.
     
    marshipan and J.D. Ray like this.
  12. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    It's the "one to three thousand" quotes that turned me off.
     
  13. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,255
    Likes Received:
    19,879
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    For a selfpub? Seems high. From what people say you can get a good one in the $300 range, I think. Depends too if it's going to be a kindle thumbnail or a printed paperback, too.
     
  14. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    4,301
    Location:
    Wonderland
    Wow! I've never seen covers that expensive. $100-$300 was probably the average.
     
  15. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    4,301
    Location:
    Wonderland
    Usually they add in the paperback version for $20-$50 extra.
     
  16. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    Maybe I was fishing in the wrong pond. At any rate, I'm happy with the artist I selected.
     
    marshipan likes this.
  17. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    953
    Nobody is charging that except artists that are in high demand. You can expect to pay around $300 for a custom cover just about anywhere.
     
  18. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,527
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    Rotorua, New Zealand
    Hi,

    I used to do my own, then realised I'm talentless at it (see my avatar!). So I started hiring artists and browsing the pre-mades. I got some from DeviantArt but the main problem was that most of those who I found there, that I liked were either too expensive or else never answered the messages I sent them. Lately I've been getting artists from a facebook site : https://www.facebook.com/groups/bookcovermarketplace/?multi_permalinks=3589231924437049&notif_id=1589363133239907&notif_t=group_highlights by simply putting out an add posting with a price and what I want. It's been mixed results. I'm not crazy about the Barton Villa covers, but the Adrift cover I really like.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
    J.D. Ray and Cave Troll like this.
  19. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Just popping in to share this place that sells prefabbed covers
    as an option to consider if you want to go that route and not
    spend a lot of money. :)
    https://selfpubbookcovers.com/index.php?premade-covers
     
    J.D. Ray likes this.
  20. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    4,301
    Location:
    Wonderland
    Here's the Facebook group I mostly used. It's paranormal romance heavy but there are all types of designers. You can also make a post asking if any designers have something specific: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2331941143791060
     
    Cave Troll and J.D. Ray like this.
  21. Josie Grenwood

    Josie Grenwood New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Personally, being the hobbyist writer that I am, who is not at the stage to go into traditional publication, I use the site Canva. It works in conjunction with pixabay and has millions of free images to use. Both for commercial and personal use (though always see the terms as some images may have their own terms)

    Canva provides various layouts to try. Some images you have to pay for the rights to, but there are lots of free ones.

    Best thing is it's free and safe to use and becoming increasingly popular. I know wattpad and a few other self publishing sites promotes it.

    I think it's a great starting point for people like me anyway!
     
    J.D. Ray, marshipan and Cave Troll like this.
  22. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Need to check that one out, since I use pixabay
    for a lot of things including part of my cover art. :)
     
    Josie Grenwood likes this.
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,619
    Likes Received:
    25,920
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    canva is a good basic web based design program, and you are not limited to the images pre loaded you can also upload your own ... one restriction is that it is limited to 4000x4000 pixels which although big enough for ebook, is too small for print covers. (note that its not photo manipulation software like photoshop its more of a basic indesign.. if you want a web based photoshop subsitute Pixlr is worth a look)

    However for those serious about cover design assuming you don't want to pay out £9.99 pcm for photoshop - i would suggest either photoshop elements or affinity photo are the best option... Gimp, while free has some notable issues - for starters it can't save a pdf, which make is difficult to use for print covers
     
  24. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, Washington, USA
    Yes it can. I just checked. File --> Export As... --> In the dialog, in the lower-left corner, there's a pop-up for File Type Selector, the list for which includes Portable Document Format.
     
  25. The Piper

    The Piper Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    517
    Location:
    Norfolk
    I can highly recommend Affinity Photo. Back in high school I learned most of what I know with its sort-of-predecessor, DrawPlus (as well as PhotoShop but I oddly found that fairly limiting in comparison, it's not for everyone I guess) - Affinity lost some of the nicer features but it's since become a really well-rounded design tool and it's ridiculously easy to use.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice