Totally agree with you, i have the same approach. I just need to write to get all of these thoughts and inspiration and ideas on the paper and somehow get them out of my brain. if i have an idea for a story/scene i will elaborate it until the only way of getting it out of my mind is writing it. and i never talk about the stories im writing, because i share the same approach as someone i read once: if i started telling people what im writing about and what kind of story it is there would not be necessary writing it down anymore, besides i find it so much more satisfying writing it than telling it.
I would love to hear about anyone who went to, or knows about, a writing school that they think is very beneficial to a writer's career, especially in fiction. Would be a bonus if it was in Canada(particularly BC or Alberta) but anywhere is appreciated.
Poet's & Writers has a ranking/list of graduate programs, all US though if I recall. It's a pretty good measuring stick, particularly the 'funded' column.
you don't have to go to college to learn how to be a writer... or go to a brick and mortar school to take good writing courses... the generally acknowledged best online writing school is ny's gotham... it's a bit pricey, but apparently well worth it... here's their listing on preditors & editors:
U of Toronto is pretty good, boasting about writers in residence with big names like Atwood and such. Mcgill seems to have a pretty good program too. But I've seen people pass up both to go to my old school, University of New Brunswick, Fredericton. It has one of the most comprehensive editors in the business. But these are all masters programs not undergrads.
I have been researching MFA Creative Writing programs quite a bit lately and was wondering if there are some good online resources. What are good things to look for when choosing schools to attend? Is it a good idea to go to school for creative writing in the first place, or are you better off learning on your own? To those of you that have attended graduate school for creative writing, I would love if you would share your thoughts on the experience. Did you feel it was valuable? Do you feel you are a better writer because of it? Are you now working in the field or are you flipping hamburgers and waiting to be published? Thanks for the information and I look forward to your responses.
Graduate education is very expensive and time consuming. But, perhaps you are wealthy and have time to kill. Being wealthy and having time to kill would be the only reason I could see for anyone getting an MFA in creative writing. Success in creative writing is only mildly helped by formal education. If a person thought it through, they could get all the formal education they need for writting novels from an associates degree in liberal arts. If you want to teach college, of course, you will need probably a Ph.D. in order to compete with other applicants. I guess it all depends on what you want to accomplish with the MFA. In my opinion, publishing fiction is becoming an entrepreneurial activity. If I am right, then no degree in the world is going to help one become a successful writer. Having said that, education is great. A bachelors of arts in English literature might be the best thing, or perhaps a broad liberal arts degree with lots of writing courses. I buy a lot of books because I review gothic novels put out by independent publishers and those who go through small presses. I look at everything. I read the book, Google the writer, look up the publisher, etc. But I have never once looked at the educational credentials of a writer. If you look at the books I have reviewed on my website, I can honestly say I have no idea if any of those authors have ever once been to college. An MFA won't get you published and it won't make you successful. It might educate you, but so will a bachelor's degree or a well-planned associates degree. What it will do that cannot be done by any other means is stall you dead in your tracks for the years you spend getting it, all the while making you think you're getting somewhere in the wonderful world of writing when really you're just spending time and money away from the main game. I wish you the best of luck and thank you for reading my opinion on this topic. Sincerely, e of g
Agree completely with the above. If you feel the need for a MFA in creative writing because you think it will make your writing better, than writing is most probably the wrong vocation for you. Academics do not produce good creative writers. No one can simply "produce" a good writer. I'm personally about to reenlist at college for a potential degree in computer programming. Far more solid insofar as jobs go, and lucrative enough to pay for any writing I'd like to do in the meantime. Writing novels is one of the few professions left that doesn't require a sheepskin, just a lot of talent and a good dosage of excellent luck. That said, you might be able to get a job as an itinerate professor with some colleges, and have the dubious joy of teaching incoming college freshmen their remedial English courses, or basic "creative writing" to a bunch of dumb-as-rocks kids who are simply there because it lets them tick off another credit on their required course list. There are people teaching at the college level with just a masters, but it's hardly anything I would call ideal. So far as I knew, publishing fiction has always been an all but entrepreneurial profession. And like all things, you're either cut out for it or you aren't. Take a few classes in learning the basics of the publishing process, if you like. Beyond that, don't waste your money. If you're shooting for a living off it, chances are you're going to need every penny before you finally strike gold. The day every publisher starts requiring a diploma along with the manuscript... is the day I find a convenient cliff, because I'll know the world really has reached rock bottom.
Go to a school in or near a major publishing centre, and the connections you'll gain will make the price tag worth it. Publishing, like so many other industries, is all about connections--not what you know, but who you know. It's true that a fortunate few make it out of the slush piles of big houses and make a success of themselves, but far more go to New York or London, get to know the right people, and work their way up. Collaborate on magazines or independent projects with other young writers, get to know editors of journals and magazines, make contacts with agents and publishers, and you'll be off to a good start, and the best way to do that is to go to a good school in a well-connected area. On the other hand, an MFA in creative writing from a random school in the middle of nowhere probably isn't going to offer much in the way of job prospects or career pathways.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of attaining a Master of Fine Arts in Creative Writing degree? Does anyone have one?
In only advantage I can see in seeking an advanced degree in creative writing would be if you were interested in an academic carreer, teaching creative writing. I can't imagine such a degree being very helpful to a working writer.
no, it wouldn't... i have to ditto james on this... other than an academic career, the only thing it might help with is if you want to be an editor at a publishing house, or for a magazine...
There is another thread about education. I believe education is good to a point. Much like a bell curve. It helps to a point but then seems to detract from helping. I think any class that encourages you to write and get feed back on how to improve will help. But masters level education seems over the top. Another thought, maybe the masters education makes things interesting to you, that normal "lesser educated" people might not.
If it is not going to benefit me in attaining work as a script writer then I do not need to do it. I will look into costs of the program before I make any decisions. Thanks for the replies.
It's actually pretty good to have these days. The networking ties related to MFA programs goes deep. This is even evident in 'genre' fiction circles, and increasing, as many programs are broadening to focus on more genre-related work, and many MFAers are finding great success in commercial fiction. Not to mention, many conferences (like the kind you have to submit samples and be approved to attend) are heavily attended by writers with MFA's. If nothing else, it's a great networking tool, and while it may not be to everyone's liking, nepotism and/or networking (however you want to call it) can be a great benefit to a writer. It gives you time to write. Many MFA programs are funded, meaning they're paying you to write and read and study writing. It's not going to make you rich, but is more money than most writers will probably ever make from their writing. People like to discount the benefits of formal education when it comes to writing, but how many other professions can you sit in a classroom with the masters of the industry looking over your work and giving you feedback? The sad truth is very few writers make a living solely from their writing, so even the most accomplished writers will have day jobs, and their jobs are often teaching in MFA programs. The investment is actually in getting the undergraduate degree. As I mentioned, many MFA programs are funded, whereas undergraduate degrees will often be where the bulk of costs accrue. MFA programs don't require any specific undergraduate degree, so if you've already got one, even if in an unrelated field, you can still get an MFA. Or you can get an undergraduate in a field that is more helpful for a 'real' job, and then still apply to MFA programs in the hopes you get in, and if you don't, you have your 'useful' undergrad degree anyway. Some professions or professional levels will require an undergraduate degree, or even a Masters, but not really require a certain one. And many careers will pay more if you have a Master's degree, even if not in a related field. So, it's a bit foolhardy to get either an undergraduate degree or graduate degree in writing, thinking you'll then automatically be a successful writer, but if done smart, it's not exactly a bottomless pit, and can actually contribute to career advancement. Basically, no offense to anyone, but much of the advice that I see related to formal writing education and writing degrees are those on the outside who don't realize how it actually works or they themselves couldn't understand the benefits. That's not to say they're wrong, as it's a personal choice and perspective as to whether it will be useful or desirable to any given individual writer, but the reality of it is far more complex and deep that usually represented. An MFA can be a huge boon to the career as a writer, but, as with everything, it's what the writer makes of it. The problem is most writers discount it without even understanding, or expect the dream to come to them as they passively wait for success. The reality is successful writers fight for that success, and an MFA is one way that can greatly assist in that fight. If nothing else, tell me where else you can have award winning, nationally (or internationally) recognized writers reading your work and giving you in-depth response, all while paying YOU for the opportunity. Granted, the biggest block to getting into an MFA program is you actually have to be a really good writer, which seems to be the root of much of the consternation against it (and formal education in general, as suddenly objective expectations come into play, and many writers aren't ready for that level of critique or judgment). So, instead of deciding an MFA isn't right for an individual or that the writer just isn't good enough and should keep working, I see a lot of writers go to the argument that it's no good anyways so who'd want it. Don't be fooled by those arguments, though, it's like the cute girl that rejects the boy, so the boy kicks her and says he never liked her anyway. As with anything writing-related, it's what you make of it. To discount the benefits of an MFA in creative writing is pretty foolish or ignorant, though.
if you want to write for american tv, the best path to take would be to get an entry level job in the industry and study screenwriting specifically for tv... you can do the latter on your own, or find a good online course... or an on-site one, if you live in NY or LA... it's virtually impossible to break into tv writing in the us, unless you already have a good track record as a writer and/or good connections within the industry... so, if you really have your heart set on a career as a writer for tv, better be prepared for a lot of hard work, serious study, and a long wait before you get there...
Or, what about Masters programs that offer screenwriting as an emphasis that, in addition to focused study from professionals in the industry, seem to be a great way to make contacts as you develop relationships with those professionals.
What exactly do you mean by 'funded'? I've never heard of any master's level program (at least in the US) where they pay the student (unless the student receives a fellowship or assistantship - which are both hard to come by).
Many Masters programs in creative writing do require fellowships and assistantships, but most of those that do require them have this funding built in. Meaning, if you get accepted to the program, you're qualified for that funding as part of your acceptance (with tuition waivers, still qualifying for federal aid, sometimes including research stipends). And sure, most require some sort of teaching or tutoring or working with a publication or any number of things that are all a huge boon to a writers craft and career potential. It's hard to get into good MFA programs. But it's also hard to get published in a reputable pace. It's also hard to get an agent. Also hard to get a book deal. Also hard to keep your agent and publisher even if you have books published! Everything about writing has low statistical success rates, but that doesn't mean pointing out it's hard to do one thing makes that one thing a bad option. Not allowed to link to things, but some basic research and you'll find tons of MFA programs (and PhD) in writing that include funding (which almost always implies tuition waivers). Sure, you're not going to get rich and you aren't going to make as much as getting a 'real' job, but they're paying you to get experience, and a degree and to focus on your writing? What other 'real' job is going to do that? What other writing related opportunity even compares?
But again, not every student gets this funding. Schools cannot possibly give away this education to every student or even the majority of them. That's just common sense. People looking at an MFA have to consider the financial investment and whether or not it will 'wash', whether that's in financial or other ways. If it does, go for it. If it doesn't...
Most programs that have funding have it as part of the program and don't let you go without it. So your argument against the value of higher education is that everyone can get it for free? But that those that are skilled or qualified enough can in fact get support that funds their education? At least you seem to be coming around from your position that it's just too expensive and not worth it, and realizing it's a decision that has to be made by the writer, and is perhaps especially worth it if you are skilled and qualified enough to have such a program funded. It's absolutely absurd to reject an option that is in fact very good for those who quality, based on the fact that not everyone qualifies, which is still what you seem to be doing. I still don't understand how you can't understand that just because it may not personally be an option you want to pursue, that that means it's somehow bad in general. There are very literally writers right now who are starting classes with award winning authors and being asked by a graduate program to spend the next 2 or 3 years of their lives concentrating on becoming the best writers they an be, and being paid to do it... and it's not worth it why? Because not everybody is good enough to qualify for such opportunities? My advice isn't to put down the entire notion just because you don't understand are aren't qualified yourself, but perhaps instead educate yourself on opportunities and then work toward them. This reminds me of the writers I know who claim it's impossible to get published and there's just no money to be made in short fiction, and then don't even realize there's a local contest that pays the winner up to 500 dollars for a single 101 word story. Oh, but, pshay, I'm sure it's like totally fixed and a sham, right? Nope, it's just the sort of thing I see happen all the time where there ARE opportunities out there for writers, but so many would rather sit around claiming the world is against them and just doesn't understand their artistic genius instead of getting out there and educating themselves and giving the opportunities a shot. I don't understand why you're even arguing, to be honest. Of course people have to weigh the pros and cons, consider if a choice is right for them, but you still seem to want to insist that aha, it's really expensive... which isn't even necessarily true and just seems to be a way to discourage others from an opportunity you don't even seem to fully understand.
That seems to be like the best idea. I assumed creative writing would encompass that but it doesn't. Is there a site that you are aware of that fellow script writers network?
