i'm shocked and dismayed that so reputable an institution would do so... imo, it should be called what it actually is--tutoring... and at $100/hour for only 6 hours total, i can't say it's a bargain, either...
Hmm, the truth is, most of us here are unpublished (or else only self-pubbed), so it's hard to tell you if these courses are worth anything in a way. I guess the advantage would be that you'd learn slightly faster if you were on a course, but I'm not convinced you couldn't have taught yourself the same thing by simply writing and reading a lot. With a course behind you, perhaps you'd be more aware of tools and elements and devices you could manipulate, ways of writing you weren't consciously aware of before that now you can utilise properly - for example, I couldn't tell you what forms of dialogue or narratives there are out there nor how to write them or recognise them, I couldn't tell you any of their names, or name you any authors who wrote that way whom you can learn from. Having this knowledge could only help you, however. At the same time, you can very well write a novel and be successful without any of this knowledge too. I guess if you wanted the technical details and nitty-gritty mechanics of writing, yes, an academic course will be useful. But it all depends on what your end goal is. If all I want is to write a novel and I couldn't care less about knowing the specifics of writing, I could be using those tools without knowing and still make it. Some people don't care about the more academic side and it doesn't help them. For others, however, such knowledge might be invaluable. I think it depends on how you learn best too.
The worth of a course is not measured only by whether or not you publish after taking it. Publishing, for me, is a distant second - I'm still unpublished, and I'm still happy I took the courses I did. The main value of the courses, for me, was in boosting my confidence. I got honest critique from experienced writers who were professional instructors, in addition to honest critique from the other students. How do I know it was honest? Because I was honest in my critiques of the work of my fellow students, and the other students generally agreed with my assessments. We had some students in class who were poor writers, and the rest of us let them know that, and the instructors did, too. (Of course, we phrased our criticisms in the most constructive ways we could find, but we were honest.) If my classmates and I were honest with poor student writers, why would they not be honest with me? Taking a course gives you a good idea of where you stand, ability-wise. Before I took the courses, I knew where I was heading - I knew how to improve and how to learn - but I had only a vague notion of where I stood. I was like a ship's navigator who has a compass to show him his heading, but has no sextant and chronometer, so he doesn't know his position. The courses showed me my position. That's extremely important, in my opinion. Whether or not you're published, or will ever be published, it's important to know where you stand.
@minstrel - that's an interesting point you raised, and I agree that knowing your position and esp boosting your confidence can be invaluable. However, I can also say my confidence has been boosted simply by writing and improving, and having got feedback from several online writers (some from this forum, others not), I know I'm at a publishable standard. I also know there're still those who hate my writing, but I am confident enough to know when to ignore something and when to take it on. Why should these online writers not serve the same purpose and give you the same fruits as the course you took? The distinct advantage a course has is of course the fact that you have a professor there, or better, a professional, published writer. But other than that, what's the difference, in a way? As for position - well, if you're published and successful (note: AND successful), then I think you know your position. And even if you don't, by that point, well, who really cares? But I can't see you not knowing where you stand if you're already a successful writer. And I don't mean one hit wonders like Twilight or even Harry Potter - I mean people who consistently put out bestsellers like James Patterson and Brandon Sanderson etc. Never mind whether they're artistically "good" - their "positions", as it were, are pretty good and solid. They know what they're writing and how to write what they do, and when they write what they write, they write well enough to sell millions. And I think, for a writer, that's all you really need and well, all I really want. It's ok, I've dropped all pretence that I want my work to be some masterpiece of literary genius - I just wanna tell a good story, and if I'm good at the genre that I choose to do and the masses like it, I'd be a happy author.
without ever having attended any creative writing courses or the like? Hi there This feeling of being a writer, or just writing stories has been invading my head and heart for some time now but I'm not sure if it is essential to becoming a good writer that you have the foundation of a class or course.
I'll think I've learned more by brushing up on punctuation and grammar, so I have the means to express myself. That, and reading and processing other writers' views and opinions. I've also found I've had some success, simply by bouncing ideas about. Doing so has given me a greater idea of what I'm setting out to achieve, and I think a sense of purpose is very important. I don't do well in a classroom, and having one-to-ones with people of varying styles, and ways of expressing their ideas has been very useful. Oh... and "Hi" btw.
Thanks, had a feeling it was all about talent not the qualifications etc, but don't get a chance to ask many writers questions.....thanks again
You'll find a staggering amount of inspiration here. Take it on board and use what you learn as you see fit.
I think so. I've never taken a writing course. Drive and a love of words, for me, are the most important. Anything you love, you get better at.
Hi back at ye, Thanks for that, sounds like your similar to me with the classrooms etc, don't do well in them either think I'll be spending more time on this place sounds like it could be as good as a course.
I read interviews by published authors now and then who were New York Bestsellers (If that counts for anything), sold loads of books, or simply just plain well known enough. Many of them stated they were amateur writers and never really "learned" to write. They just did their best and learned along the way until they eventually published. Many of them worked real hard on a single book, more or less, and kept polishing it until it was ready to be queried. However, some did freelance jobs on the side and some had already quite a lot of publication in other non-fiction journals/magazines. Basically, it's about their own innate ability to communicate and trying new ways of writing down words. Eventually, they got good. I think most people here are more or less in the same boat. They are not enrolled in classes or schooling about writing, though I bet those that are have a more broad knowledge range on different styles and techniques which can probably help quite a bit. I don't believe it will be the difference between a "good writer" and a "bad writer", it will just give each kind of writer a different set of skills and experiences.
Thanks Peachalulu, I love stories and think I could be good at writing them but who knows great name btw
Outside of your basic grammar (that you should have had in grade/high school), no. Writing requires only that you have a story to tell and the willingness to work at telling it the best you can.
I concur with that. I have read published novels with grammar errors or typos in the first page. Published by big names too in the genre. Also, a good example, is Terry Goodkind. This is my opinion so I may be off on this. When I first started reading his novels, all I could think right off the bat was how amateurish the writing felt. It wasn't bad but somehow I saw it of a lesser quality than other authors who's writing seemed better. Maybe it was just a strange impression I got but I, as a reader, felt I wasn't reading a professional work. Had almost that top tier quality fanfiction vibe where you know the writer will one day publish no problem. I still LOVED the books. So, obviously he did something right. Grain of salt though, I could have just imagined or misconstrued the entire thing.
I should mention that creative writing classes can be helpful. It all depends on the teacher and the students in your class (because they'll be critiquing your work at some point). I know some people on this forum have had positive experiences with creative writing classes. There are also a few programs out there that are very prestigious (like the MFA program at the University of Iowa) and can help your career. These programs are certainly not a prerequisite for becoming a great writer, but I just thought I'd mention them in case you were interested.
thanks that's great, I've always had this nagging thought that the good writers aren't created by schooling, instead its the thoughts and characters inside of them makes the story they are telling good, so how can that be taught, on the other hand I don't have much to back that up just my own feelings, maybe why I thought asking some experienced writers was the way to go
Yes. I'd thought about writing and made a few feeble attempts here and there, then finally became serious about it. It's taken some feedback from other writers for me to get off the ground, but I think I caught on quickly. It helped to be willing to take their advice. I see a lot of writers come and go from our critique group that simply don't listen to the critiques. It's interesting because the things people said to me I thought, yeah, that makes sense. It's not that every critic is a good one, but you can quickly see the person who never stops defending and never makes improvements. I also looked through a lot of advice books, picking the few that helped me the most. I don't expect to ever be the best writer out there, I wasn't born with that talent. But I think I've become a decent writer and I have a great story to tell.
Thanks definitely willing to improve, its the only thing i can do trust me that last sentence has made me feel really happy for some reason, maybe its the way I'd like to feel to be happy being a decent writer, maybe its the fact you have a great story to tell and I'm looking forward to reading it one day, or it could be the wink who knows but thanks for the advice
It is one of the reasons why I come writing forums, read the works of others, and read interviews. Knowing that others have the same troubles and questions really stops me from feeling.down about.my own writing. Its motivating to know that there is a learning curve and if I keep.working I.will eventually get even better and succeed too.
I did a creative writing course as part of a literature degree which I did find useful in parts. But one of the key things it suggested was to join writing groups and forums in order to keep growing after the course had finished because there is a massive variety of people with differing views and opinions in groups like this, which can only help you develop even if you don't agree with everything that people suggest.
yes, of course it's possible... many of the good and better than good writers throughout the history of writing have done so... but being a good writer takes more than just having good ideas... one must also have excellent basic writing skills, in order to turn those ideas into readable and marketable stories/books/articles/essays/scripts/whatever... many good writers had/have a talent for wordsmithery and never had to take a course, or go beyond the equivalent of high school, to learn the skills it took to become a 'good [or even great] writer'... case in point: i didn't go to college [though i'd been accepted by 2, was offered a full scholarship to a 3rd], but i was a better than most writer from grade school on... decades later, i was being paid obscene amounts of money [$75-150/hr in the '80s!] by folks with multiple degrees--including phd's--to do their writing for them... if you have a strong desire to be a writer, but your skills are not quite up to it, there are some fine online writing courses available among the many poor-to-outright-useless ones a google search will turn up... among the best of the best are: gotham writers workshop ucla nyu
thanks for the advice that's great, I know myself that my basic writing skills can be better, will definitely be looking into these
Well I am at a crossroads, interested in opinions. I was all ready to take an online course but now I am not so sure. For one thing, the instructor(s) seem to have a novel or two under their belt, but generally those novels seem to be published by small obscure presses. And I got hold of a couple of the novels from two different instructors and let's just say the writing did not grab me at all (and that is putting it mildly). In contrast, I see many short kindle ebooks on techniques for writing and some of those authors have many (30+ novels for one recently ebook how-to author) novels under their belt. I am actually more concerned about being taught weak or even bad technique through an online course; although I completely admit any instructor knows more than me about writing novels. I just wonder if I would be better off saving the $600 from an online course and instead utilizing a variety of how-to ebooks, write, write, write, and post samples of my writing here on the forum for brutal feedback so I can learn by rewriting. I am on the fence on this one, could go either way. Part of me just wants to get busy writing my novel, as I already have it completely plotted, outlined, in fact this is coming from a feature length spec screenplay that I already have written that I want to write up as a novel.
@StoryWeaver, you can learn from how-to books, but you have to be careful which ones you pay attention to. How-to books for writers are a pretty big industry right now, and hundreds of them are available. Many of them are junk. Decide what kind of writer you want to be and find books written for that kind of writer. The number of novels a writer has published is no indicator of how good they are at writing or teaching. The most prolific writers are usually hacks, churning out formulaic trash that will be forgotten almost as soon as it's published. A how-to book by a hack is likely to teach you to be a hack - it will explain the formulas hacks use. There's nothing really wrong with being a hack, and if that's what you want, more power to you, but make that decision before you start following advice you find in how-to books. There are also some excellent books on writing by fine literary artists. You might want to check them out.
