If only. That's a comforting fantasy, that the first time out of the box, without knowing anything more than the nonfiction compositional skills we learn in grade school, we'll just happen to make all the right choices and wow a publisher with a short story, then do it again with our first effort at writing a novel. But in the real world, they selected somewhere in the range of 43,000 novels for publication in 2010. If one of them fell into that category the odds would be 43000:1 against it working for one of us—statistically insignificant, and hardly a reason to elect to just guess at what publishers are seeking instead of doing a bit of research into the craft that's been under development for centuries. And that doesn't address the fact that for those 43,000 selected that year there were a hundred times that, or more, who were vying for those publishing slots. Not really the best odds for those who elect to wing it.
Yeah, that's why I said " it's like winning in lottery. Most people still work while they hope to win." I know full well I'm not one of those shining, staggering literary geniuses, and I'm pro-education, and there's a reason why I'm studying what I'm studying right now. But I'd also like to believe that with hard work someone who hasn't an opportunity to take often expensive creative writing classes can also make it. @Burlbird: Thanks for the link. The only Zimbabwean author I'm familiar with is Yvonne Vera. She was amazing... I was referring to Hannu Rajaniemi, who isn't nearly as famous, being a sci-fi writer, but he got a crazy book deal with Gollancz after one or two short stories. Apparently he was a member of a writer's group, though, so it's not like he just farted an award winning novel while teaching maths or something.
I do sometimes think it's a little odd that there's such a stigma against structured teaching for writing - from within the writing community. Artists go to art college. Plumbers train to be plumbers. Athletes train under coaches in preparation for tournaments. So why not the same for writers?
Atheletes are often trained by uneducated ex-athletes, though 'Cause, you know, there is an actual coaching/biomechanics/testing degree. I think with writing there's the preconception/misconception that everyone can write, so it'd be stupid and a waste of time to study it or, by God, pay for it.
Probably some of it has to do with the fear that structured teaching will lead to formula writing, and writing is a field that treasures originality. For every "rule" you can come up with about good writing, you can probably find a successful writer who has broken it.
I think perhaps it's the term 'eduction' which is causing the stigma. For example: Ex-athletes are still professional athletes, which means they have a lot to give in terms of teaching junior athletes. For example, just look what working with Ivan Lendle has done for Andy Murray. For me, it's the same with writing. A professional writer has a lot to offer a junior writer - whether this is in a university environment, on a creative writing forum, or just chatting about writing in the pub. It's not for me to say how people would like to progess their craft - and I know that it's a hot topic for some - but for me it's a no brainer: if you are able to get this kind of mentoring/teaching then you should.
Plus, I'd imagine a good mentor can help a novice to find their own voice instead of overriding it and substituting it with that of their own.
Truth spoken here! And a good mentor doesn't make the changes. He or she shows the problems, perhaps suggests remedies, then steps back. He or she knows the difference between a problem and a stylistic difference. The good mentor is not on an ego trip.
as a full time mentor, i can say katrian and cog are right on target there... cog has described the process perfectly... and i sure don't spend all that time and go to all that trouble just to massage my ego!
Absolutely, you can learn the craft of writing. My advice is to go to your library and check out some books on the subject. I know James Scott Bell's books have helped me improve. Books on plot and structure, character development and scene.
I don't believe there is a link between depression and creativity... I do however see a clear link between depression and solitude coupled with free time.... Think about it... Depressed individuals are less likely to be distracted and more likely to complete pieces... Depressed individuals seek relief but shy away from other people... Typically... It's a natural progression, as are all things
Hey, I'm the last to get it and the slowest to learn. If I can get a yes anyone can—and probably in a lot less time. But forget those CW courses. There may be good ones, but the vast majority will waste your time and money. They'll have you read a chapter or two from a book on writing, or poetry, or whatever they're teaching that week. Then, they'll expect you to use the skills you supposedly learned and write a story, or a poem. But, instead of analyzing the stories and identifying what does and doesn't work, and why, the class—a group of people who have not a clue—will spent most of the class time critiquing each other from a position of abysmal ignorance. The average writer, before they sell a word, usually writes, polishes and puts aside from a half million to a million words. Given that, the idea that you can read a few pages in a book on writing, and make even misinformed judgments on what a story needs to be more professional is ludicrous. And any course structured on the idea that it can be done that way a waste of time and money. The trick is that you don't want a class on creative writing. At best that's an overview, and a general skill training. You want commercial fiction writing, and that's very a different thing. That's why I so often recommend Bickham's Scene and Structure. Not only was it written by a man who taught professional fiction writing as a university professor, he put his knowledge into use and sold seventy-five novels. Seventy-five! The man not only knows, he's made a living both by teaching what he knows and by putting it into operation successfully. And best of all, it's free at your local library. So screw that high priced course, probably taught by someone who may have sold a novel in the literary genre. Spend a few hours with a professor of commercial fiction, nd do it in the comfort of your home. In the same time you would spend in class and doing reading and assignments you'll not cover a one chapter condensation of the field, you'll read an entire book designed to teach you the skills, and give you the tools, that a professional writing fiction for the printed word needs day-to-day.
@JayG I thought Bickham's books were published long after he made a succes actually holding creative writing courses? Workshops came first - How-to Do-it-yourself books came second.
I say take the course.... Even if the instructor is inferior you can still learn and take advantage of the opurtunities a setting like that can provide... Pad your life experiences... $600 or so is a small price to pay... Even if you only take away one thing from the course... You got your monies worth
True. He was selling westerns in 1958. His Wildcat O'Shay series began in 1961, but he didn't begin teaching till 1969. His books on writing didn't appear till 93 Swain released Techniques of the Selling Writer, which pretty much parallels what Bickham has to say in 1965. Most library systems have Bickham's books, though, which is why I often recommend it.
@JayG Again, if you look at Dwight Swain's biography you'll find him being associated with University of Oklahoma Professional Writing Program for years before publishing the "Techniques etc". ..on the funny side, do you know the name of Un.of OK College for Journalism? Gaylord!!! Really, seriously: Gaylord
My $0.02 worth. I work for a university that has a pretty good Creative Writing programme taught by fairly successful published academic faculty. The main focus of these types of courses is to try and get students up to the standard where they have a chance of being published, broadly, in the field of literary fiction. And you know what; it's relatively successful. A fair few of our students do get published* after having spent three or four years learning what kind of writing publishers want to see and how they want to see it. So I would say if your goal is just to get published and learn to write in a way that will maximise your chances, this is probably a good route to go. *Published as in their work in print, not published as in they can make a living out of freelance fiction writing, which is virtually unheard of amongst CW grads.
Keeping in mind the question in your title, I feel forced to ask a question of my own, after contemplating it myself. Will you still enjoy writing, if your current skill level is the best it will ever be? I struggled for a long time with this notion. A part of me didn't want to admit that I may never be better than bad, better than competent, better than good. A part of me did not want to believe that it may be impossible (to hell with realistic!) to achieve the level of great, or masterful. But after some serious contemplation and soul searching, I began asking myself, "Why do I need that kind of validation?" And so, I discovered that for me, writing for enjoyment's sake should be my first priority, then the rest will follow suit.
I think that, to me anyway, a large amount of the people who are suffering from depression can see the world for what it really is. The truth in their writing is what makes it so beautiful, because they know what is wrong with the society to which we all belong, and they cannot handle it, but they can still express their feelings.
Creativity helps pull me out of depression. It's cathartic. It either focuses your energy on the pain and helps you work through it, or gives you an escape from the pain of reality. Both can be therapeutic.
I would like to start writing fiction professionally but I have zero experience. I love to learn and consider myself to be a very knowledgeable individual. I have the time and the drive and am ready to seriously pursue a career in writing. I am not new to writing or methodically delivering information to a target audience. The problem is all of it is non-fiction based experience. I am unsure on how to approach learning to write. I am not an avid fiction reader and therefore don't really have any hard-coded writing style or methodolgy to mimic based on observation or familiarity. So far I plan to start writing 1,000 words a day of fiction for the practice. But other than that, I'm very conflicted on how to start. In the past I have always been able to learn the skills I need from books. However, the more I research books about writing the less I thinking writing is something that can be taught. At least in the traditional sense. My biggest worry is that in trying to learn writing I may be teaching myself bad habits or filling my head with incorrect information. I am looking for advice on how to move forward with an education. What is essential reading? If not direct book recommendations, what types of books on writing should I consider solid teaching material?
What Writing Skills Do I Possess? (read only if interested) I have no formal writing education. I earned my GED over 10 years ago, scoring 99% in English. During High School, English was a subject I hated and paid little attention to. I can't tell you what a verb, pronoun, adjective, compound sentence, etc... is. I simply don't know. I don't read fiction books. I've been a TV and movie junkie all my life. I enjoy comic books from time to time. I've listened to a few audio books and read a handful of fiction novels throughout my life. On the other hand I have read truck loads of non-fiction. I am ready to change this about myself but want to point out that I've never made reading fiction a priority. I speak very well. Many people tell me they can tell I am intelligent simply by the way I speak. I assume this is a mixture of my vocabulary, the way I word my sentences, and perhaps the variety of topics I speak about. I love to learn and turn around and pass the highlights onto others. I write even better than I speak. No one ever points out problematic grammar though I don't exactly hang out with English Teachers and Copy Editors. I do not write for fun. There is always a purpose or a goal in mind. Over the last couple of years I've gotten into Tabletop Roleplaying (as a GM) and found I really enjoy crafting stories, setting, and characters. I've written quite a bit for this activity, though none of it is traditional story writing. Over the last 14 years I have spent thousands of hours working on various online projects that involve heavy writing. Website administration (content creation + regular posting), I've written over 20 extensive FAQs for various professional websites and software developers, managed numerous fan based projects, and more forum based activity than I can honestly quantify. All of which was non-profit, volunteer, and in my free time.
