I completely understand what you are saying about John Grisham et-al. They are lawyers and are taking their daily lives and turning those cases into fictional stories. The will have an abundance of certificates in their chosen genre - law - but not necessarily in the art of writing. A quick search on the Open University reveals the following courses: Single Honours in English Lit, Language Studies. Combined Honours in English Lit and Language, English Lit and Creative Writing, and Post Grad qualifications in MA English, MA in Creative Writing. So, if I have an MA in Creative Writing, a degree in Politics, a degree in Forensic Science and a combined honours in English lit and lang, I will absolutely nail the political/murder/thriller genre. But if I just have an MA in creative writing, I will nail any genre because I know how to write ... (I have none of the above, btw.)
I'm not sure how the MA would differ from an MFA, but from what I've heard from people who take MFA courses, the main advantage is just having time and societal 'permission' to focus on their writing for a couple years. And I can see how that would be valuable, but I'm really not sure it would be significantly more valuable than just taking the time on your own, without collecting the letters.
It doesn't make a difference. I don't look. I don't think most authors come to the profession by that route - although certainly I'm happy to read stuff from someone who did, which is why colleges offer degrees in creative writing. But as a reader I don't care/
That's probably not true. If you have all those qualifications you certainly have a good start and a lot of training - in both the language and the subject matter - but that doesn't automatically translate to good stories in any of those genres. Also an MA in Creative Writing doesn't necessarily mean you can write any genre. I don't have a degree in the subject but I did take two semesters of Creative Writing back in the day - and they said up front, "we write literary fiction in this class - no genre work - no sci-fi, no fantasy, no thriller, no mystery." (All the students brought in genre work anyway and nobody cared - but the course material was all literary). Honestly, I enjoyed it, but as someone who writes genre/popular fiction, it improved my craft but stifled my creative impulse, because we were instructed on what makes a good literary story (only shades of grey, good vs. evil is always a bad plot, what's going on inside heads matters more than action, etc.)...when in fact most of those things are exactly what makes a good GENRE story. I have nothing against high-level literary fiction - but it's neither what I prefer to read nor what I prefer to write. And since taking writing back up last year, the key thing I've learned is that the standards are drastically different from genre to genre and between genre and literary. (Though there is certainly crossover). And the story that used to be insufficiently literary and too good vs. evil in a college course, works just fine in genre circles (granted my prose and story construction have also improved compared to when I was 21 - which helps ) If you want to enmesh yourself in writing culture, especially in genre fiction, I'd say look into how people who write fiction network, free training materials online, writing conventions in your area etc.
That's true - although degrees and professional experience do give people a base to start from...they have to do less research because they've already studied it, and a neurosurgeon will know what the stress of operating a human brain because he's actually felt that emotion. So oftentimes we draw on areas we have experience because we are our own research material...but that doesn't mean it can't be done with research. For me that's actually part of the fun - rendering something I haven't experienced well enough to fool those that have. That said I also use my real interests and real education as starting points for plots - because in already know a decent about geopolitics, Washington DC, and journalism. So there I give myself three things that I can go on and on about with no research, which frees me up to do research on other things.
I kind of let my mind wander and then start asking the questions of what can/can't happen. I am toying with the idea of getting a degree but in all honesty, I'm not sure it would make a difference, except to way I feel about myself. Not that I'm on a massive downer or anything but I don't think it would make that much difference to my writing. In other words, is it really worth the expense? At this stage, I don't think so.
To go off on a slightly different tack ...does anybody know if it makes a difference to agents or publishers, whether or not their writer has studied writing? Just curious. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to say you have an MFA when you are sending out your query letter. At least the agent would know you can probably string sentences together, and that somebody else probably didn't write your query letter for you! I'm not suggesting that anybody go out and get a degree so an agent will take them seriously. But I don't imagine it hurts your chances if you do have one, and do mention it.
My grandfather had a saying: Send a fool to college, and you'll get back an educated fool. A degree is not relevant to publishing fiction. The only paper that means anything is your manuscript. It's a different matter if you're writing a textbook. For that, your academic credentials may - MAY - affect your credibility with potential buyers of your work.
I wouldn't think it would hurt, but I don't think it would help, either. Agents and publishers want books they can sell. If you present them with a book like that, they want it. So if you have a sell-able book but no relevant degree, they want the book. If you have a relevant degree but no sell-able book, they don't want the book. If getting the degree makes you a better writer, great. But doing it just for the credentials? I really think it would be a waste of time and money. (Unless you want to teach, or write books about writing, or do something else where academic qualifications might add to your credibility).
I can totally understand why qualifications would be beneficial where non-fiction/textbooks are concerned, after all, who - in their right mind - would buy a book about rocket science written by me? which is why I centered this question around fiction writing. For every argument not to have one, there is an argument to have one. Going back to the qualifications and the non-fiction, for the last four years of my son's primary school education (age 8 to 11) I would go into his school once a week and run an extracurricular club where I would teach a group of kids aged 10/11 to do Counted Cross Stitch (embroidery). Very rarely did I have help and there were never any other teachers around. (I have all my police check certificates). I've never taken an exam in Cross Stitch or Embroidery and I've never been taught how to teach but the class was successful for four years. The only experience I had for that job was the fact that I'd been cross stitching as a hobby for 15 years, had a police check and was willing to run the club for free. I know it's not rocket science or brain surgery but ...
I agree with all that, and certainly with the last paragraph. But I wasn't talking about the book itself, I was talking about the query letter. Basically, before the agent has ever seen the book. I just wonder if they're more inclined, other things being equal, to give more weight to a person with a degree who has written a piece of fiction. I suppose only an agent could really answer that question. It is true that somebody with a BA or MA in a field related to literature would be more likely to submit a mistake-free MS. Whether the story or writing style is any good, of course, remains to be seen. I have read agent-generated stuff, and sometimes they mention the fact that they get good query letters and then bad books, and it's obvious to them that the author of the book and the author of the query letter are probably two different people! They have only the query letter to go on, initially. So maybe they would give a person with a degree a bit more credence? Not sure. Of course the answer to this problem is simple. Forget query letters. Send me the first chapter of your novel. It can be done so easily these days.
When I Worked in the computer games industry, I was at times involved with the recruitment process. We had people come in for interview who only had experience making games as hobbyists and we had people who's only game making experience was what they'd done on their game making courses. There were far more employable prospects amongst the hobbyists. (We did have people who'd done both of course and some of them were good.) Could be hard to persuade none-game makers in human resources of that fact though, they'd sometimes put requirements in the job adverts which we didn't care about. It seems to me that the people who are best at things are those who dedicate their time to it because they enjoy it, rather than because they get a qualification at the end of it. In many sectors, you don't get many people who want to spend years doing things as a hobby, so you have to base choices on qualifications. And some sectors such as a medicine, you can't really practice as a hobbyist.
As if you need a formal education to write... People pay more attention to peer reviews, authority endorsements, and whether the story resonates with them more than they do on formal education. Many successful non-fiction authors don't have formal degrees in writing.
I dont look up the educational background of the author before i read their books. I do not think a degree is required for a fiction writing. I think if you write non-fiction then you probably should have a degree. For insistence if you write a book like Killing Lincoln then I would think a degree in history would be helpful. Similarly dont give me advice about parenting if you do not have a degree in child psychology.
Hmmm. I wrote a non-fiction book about parenting and I don't have a degree ... OK, so in reality, the non-fiction book I wrote was a true story based on my experience of adopting children but still, I wrote a non-fiction book and I don't have a degree.
Happened to come across this on Mildred Yuan literary agent - 'You have a BA in Economics from Harvard and MA in English Literature from Cambridge. When you take on an author, does their educational background play a factor in whether you take them on?' 'No, even though I was lucky enough to attend these prestigious institutions, I don’t think where you went to school necessarily tells me much about the type of person you are. Whenever I take on a client, it’s 50% about what they produce, and 50% on who they are.'
I wonder if people are looking at this the wrong way, as if the credential was the sole goal of a college degree. I think there's a consensus here that one doesn't need a degree to sell a book. But in this day and age one does a lot better financially with a degree of some kind, something to think about if your writing doesn't earn you a living. And some writers get degrees because the education itself makes one a better writer. In college, you also build up your network of friends and having some of those be other writers is a nice benefit. Getting a degree in something you enjoy is always a plus. My continuing education class starts Monday. I've enrolled in the local college in an evening course: YA Novel Writing: Captivating the Teen Reader So there are other benefits to a college education besides the degree. There is the benefit of education.
None of the publishers I've worked with have even asked. Again, for non-fiction, I think they'd care. Your degrees would be part of your platform. But for fiction? I don't think so.
If Doctor Oz can be a doctor and influence hundred thousands of people to buy literal crap, then I doubt education matters in the least to most people I'll admit, he is educated and an actual doctor but he's one of them wild doctors. Like that chick who convinced people she could tell a persons gender and stuff from their shoe prints >.>
When it comes to writing stories, I put more value on personal experience than education. If I wanted a story on say Palestinian refugees, I would be more interested if the writer is an aid worker or a former refugee than someone with a degree in creative writing and poly sci who has never been there, regardless as to how much research they did. If the former has any talent they should be much more able to bring life to the story and unique perspective than someone who never saw it first hand.
Kylie Minogue’s sister was awarded a Doctor of Media in 2011 from Southampton Solent University for her “major contribution to the entertainment industry”. Exactly I think we've moved on now from the days when,as my father will tell you,you either got a job down the mine/in the steelworks. Or had brains and chose the path of learning to get that holiest of grails,a degree. (Or had a hawk and faced much peer pressure and a bully PE teacher) I followed such a path,without any direction or purpose,like many others here I'm sure,and found it wasn't the path to riches and success that we were sold I've been a cleaner,care worker,teacher,waiter,soldier,and now a security guard. That experience is worth more to me as a writer than my degree ever will be (with the exception of the time spent achieving it) And I am sure publishers know that. Good writing. That encompasses knowing what you're talking about. And there's plenty of free information on the world wide web (remember the old days when we used to call it that?),so you can research almost any topic And even with vast knowledge of your subject matter,you can still bore readers. Grisham may know all about law,but people would rather read about wizard boys and how to cast spells My advice is to forego the degree. Wait until you're a successful author and they throw doctorates at your feet
And if you don't succeed as a writer? I've never regretted the education I've gotten. I don't understand the advice it isn't needed.
I know many people in life who have rich fulfilling lives without a degree. My wife was trying in vain to become a graphic designer,realised that it would be too difficult to get into,and is now happily doing a practical course in dental technology with an almost assured job after her two year course. My point is that a degree has been extolled as the route to a successful career,when it's clear that there are other routes and training.
