It's not about saying education isn't necessary or needed. It's about accepting that you can succeed in certain fields without a degree. Sure, you'll most likely never become a surgeon but that doesn't mean all other walks of life would also be blocked off with hard work. It sucks you missed out on the whole experience, and generally a degree would help in many places. However, it doesn't screw you for life either. It's simply a path versus another. Personally, I have no interest in most courses. I'd take maybe some psychology, though I never want to practice it. I'd take philosophy, though there's no work to be found for it. I'd take creative writing, and hope it helps me get to where I am. It'd be mostly a waste of money because I'd have zero guarantee that it would help me make money. I'm not willing to risk a huge bank loan and years of study for something that may not pay off.
I don't believe I said people without college educations can never succeed. I'll add to that, that not every degree guarantees you a decent income. But the evidence is, in the US there is a direct correlation between level of education and income. http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
I never meant that you said it or implied it. I'm just saying it's a choice with advantages and disadvantages.
We can have degrees coming out our ying-yang but that doesn't mean we can put words together on paper to create an easy to read novel or story. I know of two people, both academics, who can't even write a bloody five page report that makes sense. (I write the reports for them) How in blazes did they get their degrees to begin with? Some people just can't transfer words from their minds to a sentence on a piece of paper. I have kids like that in my school class who can tell wonderful vocal stories but, when asked to put the stories on paper their story telling ability ends.
Of course. I think of it more like a risk/cost - benefit issue. I just thought the thread needed some balance of perspective.
I think the issue couldnt come in when people questions your advise and you have no way of backing it up other than "it was my experience." Of course you write a book and it might be helpful to others and it might make a lot of sense but sometimes having a degree is helpful.
If you look at the wikipedia pages of most successful authors you will see that they went to college. It isn't necessary, however. Hemingway and Louis L'amour are two off the top of my head who didn't go to college.
One of the top cardiologists in the world recently opened a clinic to deal with a condition called "Sudden Death Syndrome". He had to be dissuaded from calling it the "Sudden Death Clinic"
"I have been writing professionally for a lucky-despite-the-number 13 years. Not once — seriously, not once ever — has anyone ever asked me where I got my writing degree. Or if I even have one. Nobody gives two rats fucking in a filth-caked gym-sock whether or not you have a degree, be it a writing degree or a degree in waste management. The only thing that matters is, “Can you write well?”" - Chuck Wendig from his excellent (if unnecessarily profane) blog post, "25 Things Every Writer Should Know". If you haven't read Wendig's stuff, take a look at http://terribleminds.com/
I was about to tell you to calm down! Lol I think we've been looking at the question from a professional point of view, I.e. other writers, publishers, agents etc but what about readers? General John and Jane Doe on the street?
I was speaking as a reader when I said I could sense the authority some authors have while writing in their fields of expertise (Dick Francis writing about steeplechasing, Scott Turrow writing about law, etc.). But a writing degree? As long as the person can write, I don't even think about how they learned to do it.
Apologies. Before I began writing seriously, I was very aware that when authors were interviewed, something about University would almost always come up in conversation "And of course, you were at Oxford with such and such, what fun ..." So although a degree was never actually mentioned (they could have been big failures ...) the fact it was mentioned meant that as some stage, they went to university which to some people says privileged/brainy/knows what they are doing. It also goes some way to putting off would-be authors as they consider themselves not worthy of the title if they left school at 16 with 9 GCSE passes and were shoved straight into work with no chance of ever following an academic route.
I can remember reading about Len Deighton's Bomber. Apparently he found it difficult to write about a hero who was a "grammar-school boy" - rather than a University graduate - because, not being one, he had to imagine how the hero would react, what he would know, etc..
I have never picked up a book and wondered what qualifications the author has to make them worthy. If the story is gripping, I'll read a book. In fact, I don't think writing comes from a degree. As corny as it sounds, writing is something within you and you don't get much choice in the matter. Obviously you can learn the construction side of writing (spelling, grammar etc), but without the passion to write, you won't be able to produce a decent piece of writing.
I wonder if that's a UK thing? They say that class is a more important distinction in the UK than elsewhere, and it sounds like education (and location of education) is essentially a class indicator? Like, the interviewer mentions the social aspect of the school, the contacts made, but not the classes taken or skills learned... It may also depend on the type of book. If you're writing literary fiction, maybe there's more snob appeal and formal education would be more important, at least to some readers?
I think you might be right. Lets take a quick look at Boris Johnson - current Mayor of London. According to wiki, he was born in New York to upper middle-class English parentage. He went on to school at Eton and Oxford and after a career in journalism and then politics, he's now the Mayor. But look at him, seriously - the guy looks like a baffoon who's hair's not seen a brush for ten years. Based on looks, I wouldn't trust him to look after my phone for an hour but as he's been through Eton and Oxford, he must have some brains somewhere!
So a bunch of people without writing degrees think you don't need a degree to write well, no big surprise there. But can the degree make you better?
Yeah I don't see why a degree wouldn't make you better. There may be other ways to learn the same things though. At times the degree might not be focusing on the types of writing you want to do. So I'm not sure it's a cheap or efficient route. The advantage of the degree route is that a degree has other uses too. It can increases your chances of getting a job. In some cases the subject of the degree doesn't matter so much, it's proof to employers that you have some intelligence and you can work reasonably hard. It can be killing two birds with one stone. Improving your writing and improving your employment prospects. If you like writing then you're likely to find a writing degree more fun and thus easier to complete than other subjects.
Can a degree make you better? That depends on more questions, is the degree in your chooses field? Did you go from school to uni without having a job in between? Are you expecting to get a higher paid job based solely on the fact that you have a degree? Obviously, I'm not just talking about writers there. Does it make you better or does it make you just think you are better?
Most successful writers have no degree. When I asked my English professors if I should study creative writing they said 'Why? You know how to write.' As Hubert Selby once said: 'I know the alphabet, maybe I could be a writer.' People with a creative writing degree tend to be less creative, because like most people who 'learn' rather than discover, they do it the way it's meant to be done. They don't explore and discover.
Spending a few years devoting yourself to your craft is probably going to make you better at it, degree or no degree.
