Creativity

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by HellOnEarth, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. Harmonices

    Harmonices Senior Member

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    Agree. That was my instinct too.
     
  2. Harmonices

    Harmonices Senior Member

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    Good point! Yes, I should do this.
     
  3. Harmonices

    Harmonices Senior Member

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    Yes. I've been slacking lately. Thought I'd plan a programme of study for myself to get back into a regular rhythm. Something that gives me a different focus each month.

    And, with reference to your other point, where I use different guidebooks or web articles to direct my efforts. I've already got a heap ton of books, I just want to do get some order in there. It's a way of doing things that works for me.
     
  4. Harmonices

    Harmonices Senior Member

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    Ooh, nice detail! I will definitely refer to your suggestions when planning my own year.
     
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  5. Harmonices

    Harmonices Senior Member

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    Oh yes, the whole point of this idea is to get me 'doing'. I'm getting bored of writing badly. I need some focus and structure to help me get back into gear again.
     
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  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Taking or constructing a course may be one way to do this. However, there is another way, that, to me, sounds more immediately useful.

    You are already a writer, because you do write. Why not give a couple of your finished pieces out to good betas? Maybe to one who understands grammar, sentence structure, etc, and to another who is an avid reader and can evaluate what you've written from a story/character standpoint.

    Take what feedback they give you. Buy a few books on writing that will give you ideas of how to improve in these areas they've mentioned. Keep writing, and give your newer work out for evaluation. If the same issues keep cropping up, intensify your study in those areas. If they don't crop up again, then start working on other areas that might have caused your readers problems.

    The best thing about this method of learning is that it's tailored to you. It's not theoretical. It's practical. And it's not trying to tell you what or how to write. What this method does is pinpoint the things your writing particularly needs. Once you know what's wrong, you can easily find tools to repair and/or rebuild.
     
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  7. Intangible Girl

    Intangible Girl Senior Member

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    I've been doing my own (very casual) self-study for the last year or so, consisting mostly of reading online articles about the exact problem I'm having at the moment. I'd get stuck on my third act and google articles on story structure. I found myself facing down the behemoth that is revising a first draft, so I googled that. I found a lot of conflicting advice, of course, but I also found plenty of things that the majority seems to agree on. Doing that for long enough let me see trends, and I eventually got a sense of what I definitely needed to know as a writer and what was merely one person's opinion.

    A year or so of doing that and I've improved more than I did during years of just struggling through it on instinct. A specific, structured self study program seems like it would do even better.
     
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  8. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    There is just so much to know, and so many people who hate famous writing. The only way to know if you are getting good is to routinely finish and polish work to give beta readers, with the goal of finding well read people who like your work and get it.

    The ideal courses for me, which runs out my ability to concentrate, is read for an hour, study for an hour (YouTube, blog, books, or writing exercise, including content like history, or straight writing advice) and three hours of writing.

    But if you don’t have that kind of time, the most important things are reading, basic craft study, and beta reader trading.

    If you print off a page from a new Steven King novel and take it to a writing group full of strangers, most of them will shred it. There is no objective good.

    But there is good enough for its audience, so that’s a part of what you are looking for—the only gauge that matters.

    Side note: for traditional publishing, I think people should listen to agent panels, watch filmcourage on YouTube, and read debut authors, because there is a certain style to it.
     
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  9. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    There are so many areas to writing. There's plot and all that could be listed under that. Character and the list that comes there. Setting. Then the technical stuff like grammar and punctuation. Then of course there's editing and learning the business and marketing. I think it would take more than a year! If money is not a worry then you could take some classes. If your in the UK you can do openuni and get a degree. My friend teaches one of the degrees there and I'd love to try it. Obviously, being a teacher she is someone who encourages classes. You do get a lot from them.

    My weakness is grammar and punctuation (obviously) so I try to teach myself that. Know your weaknesses and learn to strengthen them. That's where I would start.

    There is just so much to learn. I teach myself by listening to master story tellers. By reading blogs and articles. There is no right way, I've learned, and in classes they tend to try and teach as though there is a right way. I've been to a few classes where the teacher actually believed character was more important than plot. They are integral to each other and a well crafted story needs both to be equally pulling their weight, not to mention skill in the writers hand.

    Reading good literature and writing will teach you more than any class or writing forum. I come on here for the community and because it's the only place I can talk about writing with others who are interested; can't say I've learned much so far (accept how to navigate in drama). I've read books on writing and thought 'it's just what the last book said to do, just worded differently - I didn't learn anything.' Then I read a blog and learn something or it makes me put more emphasis on something I normally over-look.

    If I were you I would try to read the best. Old and contemporary. Literary and genre. Read non-fiction. Write as much as possible and get feedback on that writing. So many people say, read, write, read, write but they forget to mention getting criticism. You wont improve if you're unaware of your mistakes, you'll just keep making them. Feedback is essential.

    That's all I have to offer and I hope something was useful to you.
     
  10. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    News flash: Character is more important than plot. :p

    It is to me, anyway. Plot is just what happens because characters do stuff. Get yourself a character, put him in a situation, and watch what he does. What he does is the plot. In my opinion. :D

    If I were to study writing for a year, I don't think I'd structure it much. I don't do well with structure, anyway. There are some things I would do, though:

    1. Okay, this isn't really something I would do; it's just something I would realize. I wouldn't spend time on grammar, punctuation, rhetoric, etc. In my view, you should already have all that pretty much down before you even think about studying writing. I'm sure there've been many successful writers who have never heard of metonymy, litotes, chiasmus, tme fucking sis, and so on, but use them instinctively because they read a lot as kids. (Sorry for making a mess of my verb tenses.) Grammar? It's okay to use adverbs. Punctuation? Show a little love to semicolons; they're your friends.

    2. I would read John Gardner's The Art of Fiction and On Becoming a Novelist. I would read each of them several times. Gardner's a better teacher by far than Stephen King, and the less said about Dwight Swain, the better.

    3. I would read and study John Steinbeck's Journal of a Novel: The East of Eden Letters. When Steinbeck was writing East of Eden, one of his major novels, he started each working day by writing a letter to his friend and editor, Pascal Covici. These letters touch a little on the news of the day, but they're mostly about the problems Steinbeck was facing at that time in the writing of the novel, and the solutions he was coming up with. They are a record of a major novelist during the creation of a major novel. This book is a treasure for any aspiring writer - it's like looking over Steinbeck's shoulder, watching a Nobel Prize winner at his daily work. It's incredibly inspiring.

    4. I would do the following exercise many times: I would remember a novel I thought was good, maybe even one of my favorites, but one I hadn't read for quite some time. I would recall a scene or passage from that novel. I would then write that scene myself, trying to include all the detail I can remember, leaving nothing out. I would not refer to the novel as I did this. When I was done, I'd compare my version to the original. Were they about the same length? The same tone? Were there any details I totally forgot? Any that weren't in the original, but I included in my version because I thought they were there? (Those ones can be very instructive!) What about style? What about reading level? And most particularly, were there things that were important to the original writer that weren't important to me, and things that were important to me that weren't important to the original writer? The answers to that last question will tell you what you have to offer as a writer, a thinker, and as a human being that makes you unique.

    5. Of course, I would read good fiction as much as I can find time for.

    6. I would write. Every day. Even if it's just notes to myself. Even if I don't feel like working on the novel, I'd write about why I don't feel like working on the novel. I'd emulate Steinbeck and write a letter to someone I cared about, who I hoped would like my book. Of course, the most important thing I'd write is the text of the novel, but anything, even a grocery list, would at least serve as typing practice. And it would put my butt in my chair and make me work, strengthening that habit until I couldn't go to bed until I'd done my day's work.[/QUOTE]
     
  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I have a fairly extensive collection of HowTo writing books (and many more that I've discarded as being not quite what I needed.) In general, the books written a while back—say 30 years ago—are more focused on how to write well, rather than on how to SELL what might be the current fashion.

    In other words, these books assume that if you learn to write well, you will be able to sell your books. This may be an outdated way of approaching writing, but it's one I still subscribe to.

    I would beware of any book that makes writing look easy-peasy.
     
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  12. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I know some of you have taken writing classes, in college or online.

    Beyond common errors or habits that are currently considered tasteless, not stylish, or simply wrong, did you think that your instructor was able to help you improve your craft?

    If so, did they improve your craft by making your writing more like the instructor's, or did the instructor somehow have the ability to make your writing style more like a certain famous writer, or just a better version of yourself?

    If so, how?
     
  13. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I think a good writing instructor helps you find your voice and comes to with ways to enhance it and bring it out more. I've never had anyone I studied under try to get me to write more like them or someone else. Writers are at all different levels when they take writing courses. Not every writer has found their voice yet, but a good teacher will help you search for that. I'm a big fan of writing courses and if they didn't cost so much money, I would be taking them constantly. I did an MFA and a lot of people say that programs like that produce cookie-cutter stories, but I don't think that's true at all. These courses are all about elevating your talents and abilities. Everyone's got a story to tell, but sometimes a little help in presentation goes a long way. Sure, there are a bunch of assignments that can feel stupid or pointless, but looking back they're really not. It's all about building upon what you have. I think every course I've taken has been well worth the money. I've left each one a much better writer than I started. It would just be silly to try to teach people to write a certain way of like a certain author. And if it was that easy to emulate the greats of the past, we'd all be producing masterpieces. We still can produce masterpieces, but these instructors can really help students dig deep to find our owns way to reach such achievements. Are you thinking of taking a course, @John Calligan? I don't think it ever hurts.
     
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  14. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I've taken a couple. They have some good published authors teaching at a college near me. I haven't taken any online and have heard mixed things from people. The IRL classes I took were really helpful to everyone, near as I could tell.
     
  15. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Gotham has the best online classes. They're kind of pricy, but I think they are well worth it. And taking a course from an author you admire can be so interesting on many different levels. Often teachers can become mentors and the learning and relationship continues outside the classroom. Obviously, they can't become a mentor for everyone, but I've gotten lucky a few times and I'm still in contact with a few of them that will read my work, share contacts, cheer me one, etc. What has your experience been like in the courses you've taken?
     
  16. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I just looked up Gotham. They are pricey, but reasonable if good.

    The IRL ones I took at college were great. Some of the workshops I've been to were good. The local one was excellent. Some of them were thinly veiled infomercials where they try to trick novice writers into blowing a grand or two on developmental editing for their first WIPs from someone who has never been on the other side of the publishing fence.

    In fairness to the later, I bet they really did think they were helping, and really did want to make a living helping writers or whatever, so I don't want to be too judgey, but damn.
     
  17. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I think Gotham is totally worth it. I went from wanting to write fiction to feeling like a writer within a few weeks. I know they are pricy but really worth it. I actually called them up with a series of questions before signing up. They were really helpful and I decided to go with a beginner level course even though I wanted to think I was more than a beginner. Worth every penny and then some. If in the end you end up selling your writing, the course pays for itself. That was my experience, though, I can't say I sold a story right away, but I did end up selling a story that I did write in that course. And without that course, I don't think I stood much of a chance getting into an MFA program, especially a funded one. That too made it worth it. Sometimes you get what you pay for. I think this is one of those cases. Happy to answer any questions you have about that or other courses. I do think it's important to do a little research into who is teaching the course. I really wouldn't want to take one from an unpublished writer, What's the point? I'm already a published writer. Not sure if that would have ever happened without Gotham. Sometimes I get emailed discount codes so message me if you decide you want to take one with them and I'll search my email for any recent codes.
     
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