I'm watching the utterly delicious BBC version of Howard's End. It's like a drug. I'm lost. Don't come looking for me. I want to bathe in the pragmatic niceness of Hayley Atwell's Margaret Schlegel, and take Tibby off their hands. Or at least into one of the rooms upstairs for a bit. Poor boy needs some direction. But that's not the question. The question is: There's a scene where Margaret is talking to Mr. Wilcox whilst on a very prim and proper Edwardian era "date", and she's brought up the subject of income (blimey!), which, in comic irony, has Mr. Wilcox clutching the proverbial pearls at his neck because this educated, liberal, forthright, outspoken woman has brought up Manly Topics™, when she is clearly sporting a noticeable bosom, and worse, it seems her income might be on par with his own, so, good god, man, what's going on here?? None of that is the question either. The question really is: She says to him, "Don't you know your own income? Or don't you want to tell it me." She very clearly omits the preposition to in the dative portion of the last sentence and both the direct and indirect objects are there. Is this a mode of syntax particular to the period, or is this structure still heard in the U.K?
Generally we'd say or don't you want to tell me in that context... Don't you want to tell it to me sounds very clunky, although Ruby ruby ruby You gonna do it to me May be not
Not seen it nor read the book (philistine)...was it set in the northern climes of England? It's still used in spoken form here, most often by those on spoken wordage economy drive, those who pay less attention to their elocution. Commoners like me. If the character is being portrayed as well educated, then I fancy it was a rare slip of the show-writer's mask.
Thanks for the info. I don't know where the scene takes place, but she's a Londoner in the story. It's a rather important part of her character. She and Mr. Wilcox are technically of the same class and standing (upper middle in the Edwardian notion), but she's a refined urbanite where he's a country gent. She's very well-educated, another important part of her character.
Haven't seen or read it, but it is still in use but as more of a rural thing. Comes from the same base as you would find in all BrE, pick it up, put it down, throw it out, stick it in... In those areas of the Uk and other regional BrE, "pass it to me" is said as "give it here" or "show it me"... Tell it me, I hear in my mind with a west country accent.
"Give it here" is definitely part of the American structural lexicon as well, but not the others as mentioned. Give it me, show it me, tell it me, this structure is completely absent in any flavor of AmE I've encountered, and I've encountered most in my rather itinerant life. But there are other structures in certain flavors of BrE that answer to the same kind of omission of prepositions that one would never here in America. "Where's Bill?" "He's done [at] the pub." This, and other constructions like it are never heard here. It's all very fascinating to me, these structural differences. Much more interesting to me than the odd bit of different vocabulary which only represent one-offs. Structural differences are pervasive.
In the context of your question, she is speaking in the negative and the "it me" ending is even more common, "he couldn't give it me" "she wouldn't show it me" Under normal circumstances I would never make this suggestion... If you like hearing "normal people" (even in quotes thats the wrong words) speaking English, have a look on youtube for Jeremy Kyle. It's the Uk Jerry Springer with even less class. Also do you own the TM on manly topics or are you just being 'cocky'?
It's just how you're hearing it. It doesn't have to be as pronounced/emphasized as you'd expect, but it's there ("tell it t'me"). The two "t" sounds merge in this instance, that's how it happens, it's not a thing in general. Maybe she was out of breath
That's down not done, it's an accent thing. Also in the north the will be abbreviated to. Down t pub. In the West Country they use to in enquiry, as in where's bill to , he's down pub. Incidentally for anyone who doesn't know a pub, is a public house, Ie a bar
I did a quick search and scan. In the original script/dialogue it is, "why won't you tell me" so the 'it' has been added. Why won't you tell it to me, would still be wrong even in upper class old fashioned English. (In terms of Yorkshire/Lancaster they would still say "give it me" and in older English 'it' before 'me' would be the norm. "Give me it" is a newer phrasing. "Give it me" is structured from the German gib es mir. English is not the official language of England) So all I can think is the writer for the BBC version has a natural "give it me" dialect and added an 'it' to make "tell it me". The fact that English is a mix of other languages and some historian believed it should be written as "tell it me". Or the actress got it wrong in that take but someone in the editing process thought "it" sounded better... Maybe email the BBC for clarification?
Missed this. The Trademark Symbol™ is deployed occasionally in internet venues as a way of ensconcing a concept or idea as ratified or duly named and recognized, typically in the vain of scorn or irony that anyone would deign to think it so. Were I to write, "Yes, I too have Very Important Ideas and Feelings™, just like everyone else," I'm actually giving an epic Mary Crawley eyeroll to the whole thing.
That was more of a joke about cockygate. But I deliberately didn't capitalize 'manly topics' in case. I thought it was enough of a risk using the same words and font as you.
We actually have a couple of these here in the Philly area, though the only ones I can think of that I hear with any amount of regularity would be "up the mountains" (or specifically "up the Poconos") and the infamous "down the shore." In both cases, the "up" and "down" are really just a substitute for "to."
