Describing/Characterizing POC

Huh, okay, so after talking to my mom (my trusted companion and sounding board), she mentioned that certain tribes don't really have a written language, and that maybe it wouldn't be considered a necessity to learn to read the English language. After some research, I found it's true! Here's a link. Unfortunately, most of the languages of the Aborigines are dying out, much like the Aleut tribe of Alaska, and their languages aren't being accepted/taught in schools, which I think is sad. I think perhaps living in a region where you'd have to travel many miles to get to a school, while belonging to a community where oral tradition is valued and written communication not really a necessity, then perhaps it wouldn't be so outrageous to havean Aboriginal person, one who's never left their homeplace, who wasn't able to read the English language. Thoughts?

 

I think you misunderstand me; I'm not comfortable with any of it, I'm very sensitive to all of it. I think by me drawing out this discussion and asking/answering questions, you're confusing my attention to detail with stubborness. I didn't say that I'm against changing it, in fact my first post said that I wasn't. I'm just considering every possible option before coming to my conclusion. Unfortunately not many people have offered any opinions on what I can do to change it, as far as what ethnicity I should choose. Again, not many ethnicities have NOT had an unfair stereotype of stupid or uneducated attached to them. It's just not something I'm comfortable choosing in a flash, so if you think I'm taking too long to decide, that's why.

 

If the option is between writing a stereotypical Aboriginal Australian and a white character, I think you should write a white character.

Are you familiar with the #ownvoices movement? It's hard to really know how much of the volume from a group is coming from large numbers speaking at a moderate level and how much is from small numbers speaking very loudly, but it's certainly getting the attention of a lot of people in publishing.

I think there's a time to stretch, and a time to write what you know. To me, this seems like a time for you to write what you know.

 

Just make them a native of your fictional country. If you have a fictionalised Australia I don't know why most of your characters are from other non-fictional countries? It all sounds a bit confusing. Why not just make all your countries fictional?

 

Because I almost never set the main story in a real version of any place, because I'm not always familiar with the place I'm setting the story in. The only real places I ever set my stories in is if they're in my hometown in Wisconsin. It's just easier for me that way.

 

I think you're right, BayView. Time to make a change. I'm sad about it, but if circumstances had been different for my MC, then he could have been Aboriginal with no problem. But given the circumstances, then things have to change for him.

 

This is what I'm saying. Why do you have to have an American and an East Asian and a whatever? Why not have a Govarian and a Jumblian and a whatever, and don't model them after an actual race but give them their own (or a hybrid of characteristics). Then you do away with this issue entirely, don't you?

I'm all about making life easier for myself as an author. If I didn't write contemporary non-fantasy I would create an entirely fictional world.

 

Hm, that's true, that theoretically could be easier. But still, there's stereotypes attached to appearances, aren't there? I could have a Govarian man, and describe him as Black-coded, and if I had him doing.. gosh, I don't know, pick any stereotype attached to Black people, and it would still be racist, because he would be Black-coded. It just doesn't do away with the problem. So if I were to say my MC was a Jumblian, and left it at that, but he still had Aboriginal characteristics (as far as appearances), and he were still unable to read, then it would still be stereotypical and racist.

 

A side point: If your character is illiterate and comes from a culture of people who are illiterate, then that makes the "he signed a contract without reading it and how he's held to it" premise a little iffy. Wouldn't the person handing him the contract KNOW that he couldn't read it and, more importantly, wouldn't any courts know that that person should have known? Wouldn't there have been a duty to get someone to explain the contract to him, and to document the fact that that had been done? I'm not a lawyer, but I can't help thinking that that contract could be thrown out.

What if your character is illiterate and comes from a culture of people who are NOT illiterate and a family that values schooling? What if he's ashamed of his inability to read? What if he "covers" and pretends he can read, as many illiterate adults do? Then he would be in the position of having to publicly admit that he can't read, and arguing that the person who gave him the contract knew that, or having to abide by the contract. I would find that more plausible.

Re the culture of your character, I feel that you're falling into danger. Your mention of:

"bright, vibrant region filled with good food and cultural traditions of beading and basket weaving that the people there use to create their livelihood, selling food and art items to people that pass through the river"

feels...there's an "awww, how cute" feel about it. And there's a sense that the culture is dependent on the "aww, how cute" feelings of the people who travel through. They seem to be largely a service culture, based on serving tourists. And I'm a little uncomfortable with that. I'm not sure about my feelings here, but... does anyone else have a sort of cast-members-at-Disneyland vibe? Is it just me? Am I just seeking to find fault? It's entirely possible.

 

"Wouldn't the person handing him the contract KNOW that he couldn't read it", yes, that's exactly the point. It was never meant to imply that he had control over the situation, and the person who gave it to him wanted to trick him, to catch him alone and upset and talk him into something he wasn't sure of doing in the first place. Again, this isn't a completed story, so this may not even factor in in the first place; it's possible to remove it entirely with no skin off my nose. Which would honestly solve all my problems at this point.
As for the Disneyland vibe? There's plenty of places where I live that relies solely on tourism to make its money, take EAA for example. During EAA week, hundreds of people swarm into my tiny town, much like my MC's home, clogging up the roads and hotels, to come watch people fly planes. It's obnoxious, tons of people get into car wrecks because no one can figure out how to use our round-abouts, it's impossible to drive anywhere or eat out at restaurants because they're invariably full, and you can forget about staying in any hotels. My family actually rented out my bedroom and the den to some people this year and we made about a thousand dollars. It's incredibly annoying and I honestly hate EAA week, I don't know of anyone from my hometown who actually goes to it because we're just desensitized to it (plus you can see most of it from your back yard). However, it brings in a ton of money. I wouldn't say that our town would collapse without it, but it literally brings in millions of dollars. We've got vendors and musicians and artists that put on shows and set up booths, and we make tons of money. I imagine that my MC's village is much the same way. The influx of tourists and competitors bring in money that otherwise wouldn't be there. I imagine it's much the same in many other places across the world that have yearly festivals or events.
And I wouldn't say it's an "aww how cute" feeling; the people traveling through legitimately need the services of the people there. They need the food they sell, the repairs they can give their vehicles and boats, the places to stay overnight, the directions and the gasoline and the necessities. Things like baskets and bracelets are just extras, like the keychains you can buy while you're checking out your supplies at a gas station. So you *might* be reading into it a little much.

 

Right--my point was that that should be pretty obvious, and so the character should be able to get out of the contract. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that there's a certain threshold for understanding a contract, before the contract is actually binding. I don't think it's actually a terribly stringent threshold--I imagine that if it were, every bank would have to give every person who wants a mortgage a six-week course and a test--but there is some threshold.

So if being trapped into the contract with no escape is a plot point, that could be an issue.

 

Right, I'm painfully aware of that by this point. I think what a lot of people in this thread don't realize is that this is still a baby story, so some of what they've been asking me is information I don't really have yet. Nothing's completely certain, everything's pretty nebulous, which just makes this harder. When the story started out, it was some weird post-apocalyptic death match thing, before that it was an underwater culture of people who lived in bio-domes, and then before that it was some fan-art of the Borderlands games that made me think how cool it would be to have some crazy race car drivers in gas masks. Things change, this story will be changing too. It's currently about 23,000 words in, but it's still shaky and uncertain. For all I know, I could end up scrapping it within a month. I'll admit I do feel a little discouraged from writing it at this point, haha. This may come off as an excuse, but it's just the truth.

 

thank you! that's very helpful

 

omg... I don't have to describe him at all. Isn't that the point of main characters, is to let whoever's reading place themselves in their shoes?? I don't have to describe him at all. I'm an idiot. Okay, everybody go home, we're through here!

 

I thought you were illustrating him?

Or was that just for your own reference, not for the book?

 

Oh gosh, I guess I am. It's mostly for my own reference, I always thought it would be fun to illustrate just the front cover of the book or even do panel illustrations before each chapter, so now I guess I'm at my dilemma again. I think I'll just draw him as redheaded and white, and hope that no one takes offense that the two mains are white and the secondaries are POC (which was my main reason for defining his ethnicity in the first place).

 

I've lost track - was there a reason the other MCs have to be white?

 

well the other MC is a farm girl from Oklahoma, but she's billed as the Russian Princess. No actual distinct reason for her to be white, actually, I just hadn't spent a lot of time considering it. I'd love to hear suggestions if you have any.

 

There are many different ethnic groups in Russia. For example, she could be of Tatar or Bashkir descent.

 

I love this suggestion! The people in the image search results were wearing such beautiful clothes, those would be a joy to illustrate. Thank you