Designing a fantasy race to have attractive men?

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Simon Price, May 10, 2018.

  1. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    Oh trust me, I’m not ignoring it. I just wanna save that for later when things get weirder. The first two need to be relatively normal before I can throw out the full-on furries and my hovering centaur analogues.
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    In my view, extra arms are much, much weirder than fur.
     
  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I’m not a woman, but I am a guy who certainly appreciates the aesthetics of a man. I hope my opinion here isn’t out of line.

    Random thoughts:

    Have you seen the film The Titan with Sam Worthington? After he fully transforms, I would still be cool with that. There’s a certain beauty to what he becomes.

    Whatever they become, alteration of the basic plan of the face would be a dealbreaker. We’ve got a special part of the brain designed specifically for facial recognition, and breaking with that formula is something we likely couldn’t just learn to get over.

    I dig fury guys, but hairy humans aren’t the same as genuine animal fur. I would miss the ability to kiss someone’s skin without getting a mouthful of undercoat.

    I agree that additional arms would be a hurdle as regards attraction, but I don’t personally feel like that would be a dealbreaker in a guy - for me - so long as the modified shoulder girdle were aesthetically pleasing.

    If you’re going to go so far as talk about genitalia, I don’t personally have too much wiggle room there. A human foreskin is perfectly normal and flips all the right switches, but if we’re talking retractable lipstick action, I’m out.

    That’s all I got. :whistle:
     
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  4. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Red rocket!

    (my dog seems to be afraid of his... he's 6.5 lbs but hung like a mastiff)
     
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  5. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    Not at all, it would certainly help.

    I don't plan on doing much with the face, at least not with the first few. They'll be human. But as to what kind of human... I'll bring it up briefly for each one and have a few characters unable to quite decide what ethnicity the features most resemble and imply it's like some vague mix of a handful of them, because since this isn't fantasy Europe I can't imply they're all based on white people or anything.

    Yeah, that's part of why I decided to relegate a furry race to when things start getting to the territory of "bizarre but still conceivably something somebody's into". Fur just doesn't seem like something that would make this race one of the two most popular.

    Yeah, I'm thinking I'd use the fact that these races are magical and don't strictly have to obey the laws of physics to have their ability to rotate the location of their shoulders be because of some subtle, mostly-magical under-the-skin stuff so they just look like they have a slightly thicker upper chest and two normal shoulders on each side that can shift around a bit under the skin.

    The only race whose genitals I've given a moment's thought is the aforementioned "hover centaur" race, and that's by necessity, because since they don't have remotely human lower bodies and are completely devoid of lower dexterity or... "acceleration"... they need some pretty bizarre equipment to be able to reproduce.. The rest I assumed normal genitals for without even thinking about it. Still, noted.
     
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  6. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    I jumped on top of this because I have been investigating it for my story - a transition from narrow to wider perspective.

    I gave some thought to the skin issue. It can probably ease some of the burden on your diversity problem if you consider including texture, especially morphing. If there were scintilating patterns, or flowing tattoo-like colorations that acted like lures or triggered her arousal. Babylon5 played around with this (using antiquated means, I'll grant). It's interesting, I found the sensuous flowing patterning on the alien ships more intrigu(eing?) than the characters, but there is lots to draw from. Likewise, Guardians Of The Galaxy, and Agents Of Shield gave me food for thought on the automotons in my second story.
    Give yourself a bit more to discribe, maybe then you have ammo for individual characheristics later...
     
  7. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    I think that would be a bit much. This isn't erotica or anything, it's something of an action-dramedy urban fantasy. It's just that the speed race women draw a lot from the appeal of elves and catgirls and the like, so I want to be fair and have the men of the strength race be reasonably around that comparative level of appeal for women. They aren't going to do any funny things to a woman's brain... at least not anything more than looking at a hot guy would normally do.
     
  8. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    I've seen centaurs from the 'block print' era with sensuous genitailia(?) below the torso. Don't know if this was to side step bestiality issues, but it would be a palatable aesthetic.
     
  9. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    That's still not really possible. The entire "centaur" part of them doesn't have legs, it just floats off the ground (and crushes anything beneath it with the propulsive force), so they don't have much ability to move themselves up and down rapidly, which would be necessary if their genitals were there. On the other hand, the method I did come up with, well... let's just say some people with niche fetishes will be very, very happy with them. That is if I even bring it up. The idea of even discussing it in-story gives me pause, it's that obscene. But it's one of those things where as an author, you have to have an answer to it, whether you want to share it or not.
     
  10. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    I completely understand. My first story started as an oposition piece, it's ugly, scary, stinky, and it get's you in trouble - completely false, I discover, the hard way.
    Dammit!
    The story is about all the turmoil and feelings, brought about by everyone's (mis)conceptions, as it were. The part of life that guarantees we remain in this universe is sensual and erotic and slippery etc etc, and it better be... If we don't find our path to intimacy and trust, then our existence will become a puppet show.
    I now, like a censor, have seen too much and know too much to stand and shout against the river. I now search confidently for resolution to how things fit or appear at any angle etc to reveal the visceral truth about sexuality as it relates to intimacy and trust in any relationship of any sex.

    PM me with your solution and I'll reveal how I used 1stP POV without using any vulgarities to describe that beautiful viscera which is, improperly taken, as obscene... and done within boundaries.
     
  11. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    I appreciate the offer for help, but I think you may be a bit confused. As I said before, this isn’t erotica. It’s an action-dramedy urban fantasy. It doesn’t shy away from adult topics, but it’s not about them, and I don’t have any plans to do any explicit sex scenes, mainly because the nature of my unconventional narrator would make him feel morally wrong in doing so with other people’s most private moments.

    My concern with making this race attractive isn’t because there’s lots of sex, it’s because I made the speed race’s women draw from the classic female fantasy race appeal and I want to be fair and do something comparable with the men of the strength race. They’re not supposed to be any more overtly sexual to women than things like elves and catgirls and green skinned space babes and such are to men.

    So I don’t know if I’m ever going to bring up how the hover centaurs do it because it’s so bizarre and obscene I don’t think I could ever have any of my characters discuss it without it being absurd.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  12. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, I thought it was just curious thought about general creature building. I looked back at the thread and realized that while you are creating allure, you don't have to actually take the characters into it. The intrigue of the hover centaur put my OCD brain into overdrive. I still have to face this with my chars, but no creatures. (*sideways grin*)
     
  13. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    Right then, getting back to working this out. Thanks everyone for your advice, I really appreciate all of your help!

    Now then...

    Big Cats (and other apex predators) appear to be a pretty major theme among suggestions for places to nab features from. I'm hesitant to go full-on with clearly animal features though as it would kinda cheapen the point of the beastmen race later, but Infel's advice in particular seems pretty useful: going for features that suggest "dangerous" and "powerful", but still pretty to look at. So I was thinking I would kinda imply the features of a predator without clearly basing them on any one, and without going overboard. With that in mind...

    [​IMG]

    Given the ridiculous popularity of vampires, I take it it's a pretty safe bet to give my creatures fangs, or at least pronounced canines? That strikes me as a good place to start.
     
  14. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    Cat or snake irises?
     
  15. Andi. Just Andi.

    Andi. Just Andi. Active Member

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    Hey, I may be late to this whole thread, but I just wanted to add my two-cents just in case. In my opinion, you don't have to necessarily make your strength-based race like Beast from Beauty in the Beast or anything. However, I would reccomend using traits and color palettes for the skin and hair in ways that would enhance the attractiveness of the race. By this I mean that if having more than two arms is really that unattractive, use traits that would bring the focus of readers not so much on their arms but on other features that would be considered more attractive like their eyes, hair, skin patterns, etc.

    Hope this helps!
     
  16. CAROLINE J. THIBEAUX

    CAROLINE J. THIBEAUX Member

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    Keep it roughly humanoid then build their character. Emotions and how someone responds to things can often make someone more attractive after a while.
    If this creature is to attract your MC, what is it in a female that he would admire? Courage, compassion, intelligence? Whatever it is put that into your creature and perhaps, in contrast, show how a human he is with is lacking these attributes. That way he comes to admire the creature as will your readers.

    There was an old sci-fi series called Babylon 5. The main character falls in love with an alien. While she did not look human, her character was what made her attractive.

    Good luck with your story.
     
  17. Some Guy

    Some Guy Manguage Langler Supporter Contributor

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    I agree Baylon 5 is a treasure trove for writers to draw on.

    Smell. Don't forget about smell. Pheromones have great effect. Potentially over looks...
     
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  18. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

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    I know this thread is a few weeks old, but I'm replying anyway.

    @Simon Price: I don't know if you're still looking for answers, but I thought I'd toss in my two cents. I read sci-fi/fantasy romance and erotica. If you want to make attractive nonhuman males, these are generally the most popular features.
    • Scales, fur, or feathers.
    • Blue and purple skin are popular. I've also seen green and silver.
    • Horns, spines, or spikes. There's lots of options here.
    • Sharp teeth.
    • A strong prehensile tail, perferably with scales or light fur. Good for combat.
    • Nonhuman ears-- fox ears, wolf ears, ect.
    • It's kind of a trope/cliche in certain circles for aliens (or other nonhumans) to have tails or ears that are sensitive.
    • Generally, you want things that symbolize brutality, power, instinct, dangerous, ect. Think animalistic things. Monstrous things.
    I'm really against extra arms. I understand the logic behind it. But on an instinctive level... my gut reaction is "ew."

    Also, yeah, just keep in mind... there's a million different kinds of attractive men. Some people like big, brawny brutes. Some people like cute, slim, feminine catboys. I have a friend who thinks Predator is hot. It's hard to find something universal everyone agrees is attractive.

    Personally, I'd give them a strong, prehensile tail (either with light fur or scales). I've seen it before in romance novels and it works really well. There's something really interesting about it. It's basically a third limb... a very versatile, strong, flexible third limb. *eyebrow waggle* I'm probably a bit weird, though. I'm sure other people might think it's gross (the same way I think extra arms are gross).
     
  19. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    I appreciate the continued sets of two cents, everyone. I think I'm slowly starting to get a grasp of this.

    Honestly I wasn't expecting so many negative responses to the extra arms. It's a bit discouraging because that was the feature I built the race concept around, because this is an urban fantasy adventure story and extra arms would translate to some really cool options in a fight. I didn't expect them to be a turn-on (aside from the blindingly obvious "applications" of them), but I expected sort of a neutral reaction to them that wouldn't interfere with applying other features to them to make them attractive. I pictured the four arms on a female character and they didn't bother me, and I couldn't think of a reason why that would change when put on men.

    Hmmmm...

    What if, rather than the weird, pivoting shoulder joints I gave them, the second set of arms was some sort of shimmering, ghostly, literal phantom limbs that originate from the exact same shoulder joint and can freely pass through their real arms, and potentially re-merge with them at will? That'd basically have the same effect, but would it eliminate the gross biological weirdness of the extra arms?
     
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  20. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    The ghostly thing feels distractingly unreal.

    Have you considered working with the way that birds’ wings neatly vanish? What exactly do these arms do?
     
  21. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    The idea is more that this way they don’t have any bizarre implied weirdness at the shoulders, but they can still use both sets of arms together without worrying about getting tangled up or having limited movement. If the second set of arms can freely move through the main set, that accomplishes the same thing far more elegantly.
     
  22. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

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    Mmmm. No, that's still the same for me. It still registers as "weird + unattractive."

    So I went back and re-read your original description...

    And I gotta say, no, 90% of that sounds unattractive to me. It's mostly the arms, but it's also the other stuff. Are you saying the skin actually has a metallic sheen to it? Because that's another big check in the "no" column. So are the hair colors. Red, blue, and green can work in specific circumstances, but it doesn't work here, with the metallic skin.

    I don't mean to be crude, but for me, the "extra arms" thing would be like if he had extra dicks. No matter how they work or what they look like, I am still going to be uncomfortable. Making them ghostly dicks would not improve the situation.

    Maybe you could still make it work? But you might need to sacrifice other things-- like the metallic skin tone, for example.

    Pick a color scheme and stick to it. I'd suggest warm colors, if you want this to be the strong/bestial race. Russet, fawn, tan, tawny, freckled, brown... and then make the hair blond, red, ginger, brown, black, ect. If the arms were the key nonhuman thing about it, and then everything else was more human, that might be okay.

    Just my two cents. I don't speak for anyone except myself, of course.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  23. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    Yeah the original description was a bit off. I've since decided that the skintones are paler and not as blatantly metallic in color, along with a few other things, like maybe the shades of the hair being less bright. I think some stuff I thought of didn't properly register in my head when I was visualizing it. It would help if I could draw worth a damn so I could test this stuff out, but alas, I cannot.

    The reason why I'm even bothering with such weird skin colors is because none of them can use actual real-life skin tones. Owing to the genetic randomization I mentioned, it would be really weird if any of these creatures actually resembled a real-life human ethnicity, because most people wouldn't actually get their own ethnicity by luck of the draw.

    Anyway, the arms kind of have to stay in some capacity, because that's the main thing about them that I have a lot of interesting worldbuilding and fight scene ideas for, and also because it allows me to subvert expectations for why the member of the main cast who decides to become one did so.
     
  24. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I’m not following this part. NO ethnicity has metallic skin tone. So getting their own ethnicity versus another one doesn’t seem relevant. As far as I know, no biological creature that has skin (as opposed to scales, feathers, etc) has that sort of color.
     
  25. Simon Price

    Simon Price Active Member

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    No, I mean, suppose I made these things have the natural human skintone range. Caucasian to Asian to African and all that. 90% of people would wind up shapeshifting into another, pre-existing ethnicity they did not originally belong to, and my instincts tell me that would be infinitely more awkward than if none of the potential results of the new race had any concrete real-world racial counterparts.
     

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