Did J.K. Rowling really do this?

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by drifter265, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. swhibs123

    swhibs123 Active Member

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    I understand that your generation was exposed to books you didn't like, but so was mine (we're the same generation for all I know). My nieces and nephews in high-school right now still read 1984 and Animal Farm, they still study Macbeth, they still read Catcher in the Rye, and The Outsiders and Obasan. Same books I had to read.

    I actually think that today's youth are a more discriminating crowd because they have access to a wider range of literature. Perhaps I just reject the idea that literature is like vegetables or popcorn where some are good for you and some aren't. I think it's great to expose youth to a range of choices, but literary fiction is not better for you than genre fiction, and kid-lit will not make your tummy hurt any more than adult fiction. The fact that I loved The Count of Monte Cristo, does not mean it has more value than Diary of a Wimpy Kid. I think that's the most compelling part of literature. It's a conversation between writer and reader and how you interpret what has been communicated is as important as what the author is communicating.

    If a kid liked Twilight, and identified with the main character, it doesn't mean they have a messed up view of relationships, or that they can't appreciate more complected characters than Bella Swan. Or that they themselves are Mary-Sue-like. It means they enjoyed the story. They took something away that might be different than what someone else takes away from it.

    I want to add, quickly, that I hope I'm not coming across upset or put off by your opinions. I enjoy debates like this, but I have a little one running round my feet right now, and I find sometimes I type fast to get the post out, and might come across other than I intend. Apologies if that's the case.
     
  2. Sved

    Sved New Member

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    Spot on! And one reason why reading is a dying art.



    I like both! Although I haven't read the Twilight books, and don't plan to, but I seen the movie.

    As for Harry Potter I believe the first two books in the series are the best. Anyway I like the way how she uses the language, and of course the story itself, even if I agree it's not on a high stylistic level. Ultimately it comes down to entertainment.
     
  3. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    As for the original thread topic, I really don't know when she first conceived of the Boy Who Lived, and how long it really took her to develop it, when she started putting pen to paper, or how long it took her from first submission to acceptance of Philosopher's Stone.

    I read and enjoyed all seven books. There were places where the prose was rough, and some of the characters were pretty thin on dimension. But the stories were imaginative and fun and whimsical. I liked the fact that Harry learned like most teens, through mistakes in judgement. He became sullen and awkward toward his friends, just like teens I have known. It is well told, even if it's not high fiction.

    I've only read one of the Twilight books, New Moon. I forced it down like pan-fried liver, which I detest. I gave each a fair chance. The liver - well, I was in the doghouse with my girlfriend, and the liver dinner was penance. I read New Moon to see if I agreed with those who found it awful. I was able to read a copy without spending any money, which was what dictated which book of the series I read. Stephanie Meyer's prose is more fluid than that of Jo Rowling, but I found the endless inner monologue tiresome and self-indulgent, and the characters totally unsympathetic. The narrative itself was unimaginative and plodded along with twenty-pound boots.

    My apologies to those who find more value in the Twilight series. I can only relate my own experiences.
     
  4. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    Ya' know, I understand your concerns--but this is a forum, a place for the exchange of ideas. If you disagree, just say, "Chico, I disagree." Then formulate a well documented rebuttal.

    I'll tell you what I'd like to leave here. If I read something, and it's good, I'll tell you. If I read something and it's just recycled stuff from an old Twilight Zone episode, I'll tell you that, as well.

    If you cannot depend on me to be on the level, then my time is wasted--and so is yours. The older you get, the less you fear. I have absolutely no respect for "demerit points" nor the people who seek to chill debate by using them. I expect to die tired. I expect to go out of here banned--yet again.

    There are lots of people I respect. Wusses need not apply. Just tell me what you think.
     
  5. swhibs123

    swhibs123 Active Member

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    Good to hear.

    I have no qualms with people who don't like the books I like. In fact, I love to hear and discuss why we have such a difference of opinion. Harry Potter is a good one just because of how many people have read it. It's probably one of my favorite books, period. Twilight, I wasn't really blown away by it, but I didn't hate it - though I did hate the book ending and I thought the movie ending was exactly how the book ending should have been.

    There are so many misconceptions about JK Rowling, too. I've heard everything from, she was a starving single parent on welfare when she finally got a publishing deal and before that, while she lived in abject poverty, she had to endure countless rejections for her book. Or how she struggled to find an agent and publisher and just when she was giving up hope, it finally happened.... None of those are true.

    My only issue is when people talk about kid-lit as if it's beneath them. As if it's for kids who aren't as smart as adults, and that is simply giving adult too much credit, and not nearly enough credit to kids. Genres I understand. If you don't like fantasy, fine. If you don't like Science Fiction, sure, I get that. But not liking an entire segment of literature simply because who the books target . . . that doesn't make sense to me.
     
  6. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    The problem there is that I have the same 24/7 that you do.

    I cannot even read all of the things I love to read, much less study my craft, ride, and relax in front of the computer with a latte' in warm socks.

    After I read several representative books of a genre, or get to know an author who writes in that style, you get a "feel" for what the overall end game is.

    Right now I'm struggling with a book enitled "Musashi." He's no doubt the finest Samurai in Japan's history. Not only was he very good, he invented most of the stuff we think we know, and devoted his last years to writing it all down.

    I like the way his story starts. No matter who is telling the tale, all we know is that he first appears on the world stage crawling wounded off a battle field that killed thousands as he fought a losing battle for the wrong side. Then he became the best.

    With a treasure trove like that, strolls with zombies seem tame. LOL.
     
  7. AchiraC

    AchiraC New Member

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    As for the original thread: I've heard about plenty of writers who needed years to get their first book on paper. Personally, I am a firm believer in the 10.000 hours rule. As in, you can never excel at anything if you don't put in 10.000 hours of serious work. So taking five years doesn't sound so impossible to me.

    On the slightly off-topic, but fascinating discuss of the young adult genre, I wish they had come along five years earlier! I'm fairly young still, and love to read these YA books, even if I'm older than the target audience. I think these books keep people reading. It is good that teenagers have to read the classics, but very few of them really like reading them.

    Now, I only know how libraries are organised in my country, but I imagine it is fairly similar in other countries. In a library, there are lots of books for children. Until you're about twelve. Then it's either more children's books or over to the adult section. Which, by the way, you're not allowed to do until you're about 16. Fortunately, the lovely ladies at my library noticed that I was ready for the adult fantasy books when I was 11. Otherwise, I don't know if I would have kept reading.

    These YA books would have been perfect for me. I loved the Harry Potters. Actually, I started reading in English because I couldn't wait for the translation of book 5. Every time I now read a YA book, I wonder how many kids like me were out there and didn't have those lenient ladies at their library. How many of them we disillusioned by the 'grown up books' and had read all the children's books. Re-reading them gets old fast...
     
  8. Carthonn

    Carthonn Active Member

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    I'm sort of inspired. I've been know to be someone who enjoys deprivation in one way or the other. Whether it's TV, Alcohol, food, internet, etc...but man. This is like the extreme. Reading these stories is depriving yourself of...I don't even know how to explain it. Pleasure? I can only compare twilight to torture.

    I am intrigued....I might have to endure it.

    However, DON'T admit you did it for a woman. Cogito, for shame.
     
  9. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    You misunderstand. I ate a dinner of liver for a woman. And did so with a smile. There's no shame in running a gauntlet for love.
     
  10. swhibs123

    swhibs123 Active Member

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    Just remember that YA or MG is not a genre. It's a market that has all the same genres as every other market. I am with you, though about not having time in the day to get to what you love! My TBR list is a hundred books long and grows every day. That said, if you ever find yourself in a library wondering about a YA book you might enjoy, I suggest you try the young samurai books. Sounds like they would be up your alley, and I'd be curious about the accuracy of some of the stuff in the books. Sounds like you have quite the knowledge base in samurai history. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1423118715/?tag=postedlinks04-20
     
  11. Xatron

    Xatron New Member

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    This thread managed to remind me of the abysmal amount of torture the twilight books were for me. I only read the 2 first books because of a pact my girlfriend forced on me where i would read those two and she would read Catcher in the Rye and LOTR. Frankly, I can't understand how anyone over the age of 14 can actually read through a Twilight book without a gun pointed at him. It was one of the most tiresome, mind-numbing, debilitating experiences I've been through from the moment i started reading.
     
  12. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    Xatron used the phrase "mind numbing" in discussing some works. If a Samurai book does seek to provide authenticity, it would be tedious.

    Contrary to popular belief, the word 'samurai' does not imply 'warrior.' It is a lifestyle of service. Musashi went out into the forest, sparred with tree limbs for eleven years, and then returned to civilization for his first duel. In parallel, I sharpened for ten years before I hung my shingle. Just to polish a hammered and folded katana takes two weeks.

    I doubt a reader wants to hear about rubbing stuff with a wet rock for 200 pages. If I had to read a book like that for the thrill of adventure, I would have to suspend reality. Kind of like watching a movie about the wild west.
     
  13. WriterOfGarnia

    WriterOfGarnia New Member

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    I do not find it strange at all that she spend 5 years planning and researching for Harry Potter. I myself have been actively researching since 2005, and I am in no way done yet.
     
  14. Xatron

    Xatron New Member

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    Researching a cure for cancer or something?
     
  15. spartan928

    spartan928 Member

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    Have kids? It's amazing how all your free time evaporates once you have children.

    I understand she had a young daughter in those early years. Taking 5 years to plan and research HP isn't a stretch when you consider she dealt with the death of her mother, a divorce and was a single parent in that time frame. I'm not a huge fan of the writing, but 400 million copies speaks for itself. My kids were very small when the first book came out and the experience of reading the books to them over the years, and then them picking up the books as teens was fantastic. It was very influential in their desire to read throughout their childhood. To this day, they always have something on their night stand to read. Despite it's flaws, for children it's very positive. I hope other generations of children have the opportunity to experience a literary phenomenon like Harry Potter. It's unfortunate that its all too rare.

    There are a hundred thousand things vying for the attention of kids these days and books seem very far from attractive. Words on a page? Are you kidding me? Not to dive too deep in the nostalgia well, but in the 70's when I was a kid you had no Internet, TV was 3 fuzzy channels, and you saw a movie once a month if you were lucky. That left me with a transistor radio, records, comic books and novels to entertain. Well, with the exception of playing outside from dawn to dusk, but I digress. Point being, I hope that there is another budding author out there spending five years to plan and write the next great phenomenon that will excite kids to devour a book. Maybe someone here!
     
  16. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Bottom line is it was flipping torture reading the bedtime treacle to kiddies in the 1990s. He (HP) pretty much defines flaky creep and the films just recycled james Bond <humour, mild peril, battle, happy> opportunity for a good sleep. Adults who read this for pleasure should be ashamed, I wouldn't swap one good Sven Hassel for all the Potters. What sort of name is Hermione, is like a trap...I was humiliated in front of in-laws

    'Is not Hermian, it is Hermyohknee.'

    Reg Nazi
     
  17. swhibs123

    swhibs123 Active Member

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    The author of THE HISTORIAN said she researched for 10 years before writing her book. It sold for over a million dollars so that was probably time well spent.
     
  18. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    In the long run, is the careful use of time, research and creativity a bad thing? Look at the current news.

    We just had Lance Armstrong stripped of his medals, along with a bunch of baseball players. We had a very thoughtful thread on Pixar and formula stories. Is the concept of "instant gratification" really serving us?

    I think the hero should always die at the end of the tale, ala "Gladiator." It blunts the possible torture of watching a second-rate sequel. Besides, if we're good at our craft, do we need the 'easy fix'?
     
  19. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Stay away from the screens Tourist, real men listen to the wireless, pipe n paperback. Maybe Gladiator is allowable, Platoon, Bridge Too Far
     
  20. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    Well, I know that...

    One of my buddies is a former Marine sniper and came to my house. We wanted to get away from the "womenses" and reposed to my gun room. He took one look around and stated, "It's a monument to the 1970s."

    But my FIL made the best observation. He told me that a man spends half of his life accumulating things, and then the other half getting rid of it. It appears that "ideas" also fall into that category.

    But at the end of the day, would you want me to sharpen your knife, or would you just drag it through the mechanism on the back of your can-opener? The best stuff takes time.
     
  21. swhibs123

    swhibs123 Active Member

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    Are you not entertained?!
     
  22. swhibs123

    swhibs123 Active Member

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    I feel like you're coming on to me ....
     
  23. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Tourist, keep yr voice down. I've barely enough zippo juice for single molotov, my bowie's blunt and the air pistol confiscated after that business with the seagulls.

    Is not the same round these parts. Honestly, you'd have shot me level one - I have a different range of skills, but admire your teeth.
     
  24. I grew up as a Harry Potter geek. The books will always be classics to me. It makes me truly sad that some people like to diss JKR. The circumstances of her career as the author of Harry Potter are often overlooked because, sure she may not be the greatest writer, but she did EXCELLENT with the tools she had. She says so herself. I watched a documentary in which the host or whatever asked her: "What do you want to be remembered as?" and she said: "Someone who did the best she could with what she had." I don't think for one second she is some conceded individual.

    Don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly certain she began pondering and writing the Harry Potter series, mainly the first book, over the span of 13 years. She was rejected by lit agents for many, many years, and only through perseverance and true hard work did she succeed. Not to mention, she was a single mother with not much money, and I believe went through some rough time with her mother dying while writing critical parts of the first book. Once she became wealthy and famous, she donated a lot of her money, and has even started her own cancer charity. She is far from arrogant etc.

    In relation to the original question, she spent LOTS of time planning the books out. One of the main reasons I really liked them growing up was because she left little clues and tidbits in earlier books foreshadowing what would happen in the future ones.

    Anyway, I really doubt that Harry Potter fans are the primary insulters of the Twilight Saga, as someone theorized. I think that is probably a misconception a Twilight fan would have. The reality is, JKR went somewhere in the series no other author has. Part of being successful is being unconventional and JKR did that -- there are many aspects of the series that are completely new to young adult fiction. Of that, I am sure.

    Meanwhile, vampires and werewolves... more cliche. I've never read a Twilight book, and that's not because I'm a Harry Potter fan. I'm 21 now and the Harry Potter series lived and died throughout my childhood. Twilight began in my late teens and wasn't the kind of genre I was interested it. I'm sure it's not as terrible as one would think, although I would argue from what I see in the media that it targets one gender over the other, almost Justin Beiber-like.
     
  25. swhibs123

    swhibs123 Active Member

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    I'm a huge JKR fan, but that bolded bit is not true. She wrote book 1, sent it to one agent, it was rejected, she sent it to the next agent (Christopher Little) and he accepted it. Within a year after that it was sold to Bloomsbury. The point isn't that it was easy for her, but rather it should speak to how quickly her skill was recognized. She is a brilliant story teller, and imo, and brilliant writer too.

    Also not saying she didn't have a difficult life, I'm sure she had her fair share of trials, but she didn't come from poverty. She was university educated and despite a brief stint on public assistance, was gainfully employed.

    I totally agree that she comes across very modest, but also very thoughtful. I think that carried through into her writing.


    Totally agree. I think 90% of the Twilight haters are people who haven't read it. It was almost on-trend to bash Stephanie Meyer - something I don't get at all. There are reasons to dislike a book, certainly, but some people claim to "HATE" it with a passion I just don't understand. And not just hate it, they attack SM saying that she's poisioning a generation... egads, that is just .... I don't even know how to respond to people who talk like that. And it has nothing to do with the fact that I didn't mind the books. But rather, because I probably read 4 novels a week, and I can't think of a single book that has made me anything worse than 'disappointed'.
     

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