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  1. Christopher McLaren

    Christopher McLaren New Member

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    Do I need a comma before which in this sentence?

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Christopher McLaren, Jun 14, 2019.

    Equality and diversity will be modelled and maintained, by also providing learning examples which relate to the values of the students.

    I think it needs one but I could be wrong, let me know.

    Thank you.
     
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  2. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    TBH, I don't think you need the one you've got.

    "Equality and diversity will be modeled and maintained by also providing learning examples which relate to the values of the students."
     
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  3. jannert

    jannert Who? Whooo? Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Depending on what comes before and follows after, you could try:

    Equality and diversity will also be modelled, and maintained, by providing learning examples which relate to the values of the students.
     
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  4. matwoolf

    matwoolf Contributor Contributor

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    It reads a little Orwellian: or is an empty transaction/slogan of the biz/Linkedin variety? It's curious and interesting.

    'Equality and diversity will also be modelled,' said the Nun, 'and maintained,' she said striking the cane against the top table. 'We provide learning examples,' she gurgled, 'which relate to the core values of you, the students. Now we shall sing the song together of Our Opportunity Is Always Forward...thank you.'
     
  5. Gary Wed

    Gary Wed Active Member

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    Equality and diversity will be modelled and maintained by also providing learning examples which relate to the values of the students.
    I think it needs one, but I could be wrong. Let me know.
     
  6. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I think part of the issue is you should be using "that" instead of "which." It's a restrictive clause. Using the right word eliminates the comma problem, in my view.

    Equality and diversity will be modeled and maintained by also providing learning examples that relate to the values of the students.
     
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  7. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Contributor Contributor

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    It falls apart because the first half is passive and the second is active. But there's no actor for that active voice. It almost seems to want to attach to a clause. It also doesn't help that there's a compound subject with a compound verb. Try something simpler:

    Equality will be modeled and diversity maintained. Classwork will relate to student values.​

    The which disappears and is no longer an issue. If these lines seem too forceful, you can lengthen either section to make them less imperative, but I can't really say if that's needed without understanding the whole work.
     
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  8. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    If you're open to re-writing, you could also so something like:

    In order to model and maintain equality and diversity, learning examples will be provided that relate to the values of the students.

    Learning examples that relate to the values of the students will be provided in order to model and maintain both their equality and their diversity.
    You don't really say whose diversity is at issue, so the second example may not be appropriate.
     
  9. KiraAnn

    KiraAnn Member

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    I agree with Hooligan and 7 Crowns.
     
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  10. GrahamLewis

    GrahamLewis Let me chew on your criticism a bit. Contributor

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    I agree with others, using "that" would be better. If you insist on using "which" it should generally be preceded by a comma. But I don't think "which" is appropriate.
     
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  11. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    It’s not. That’s a very common error, though.
     
  12. GrahamLewis

    GrahamLewis Let me chew on your criticism a bit. Contributor

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    I used to edit law books, and our rule of thumb was that "which" is always preceded by a comma, but often "that" is more appropriate. There's a complex explanation for it, which I never learned, something about dependent clauses, but I always found the rule worked well enough. Sort of like the Supreme Court said about pornography, "I know it when I see it."
     
  13. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    In North America, WHICH is usually used to introduce a non-restrictive relative clause, whereas THAT is used too introduce a restrictive relative clause. A restrictive relative clause is provides information that defines the subject of the sentence, while a non-restrictive clause provides information incidental to the subject that can be removed without changing the meaning of the sentences. So whether the OP uses which or that depends on whether or not "relating to the values of the students" tells us specifically which values are being discussed or whether it's just a nice add-on.

    ETA: The two can kinda be used interchangeably in everyday settings, but you should really pay attention to which is that and which in formal, or educational settings.
     
  14. GrahamLewis

    GrahamLewis Let me chew on your criticism a bit. Contributor

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    Details that I never learned, which is often the case with my approach to literature and style.
     

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