Do people seriously not get the difference between forced and organic representation?

Hey, Homer! Over here! Come and sit with us in the Lame Section.

 

I don't even know who half of these characters are. Even when I was the target market age for komik boox I never "read" them. You could make Superman into a transgender sea cucumber and I'd be fine with it.

 

just shoot me now

 

Would anyone care to join me in the Never Seen Game of Thrones corner. It’s awfully lonely here. Bring your bell to warn others of our illness.

 

I've never seen it either

 

One episode and out, can I join?

 

This is an interesting topic! I'm going to go against the grain here and say that the aim of making reimagination of a previous classic with minority characters is not really about diversity.

As you can see, you actually start inciting people and making them feel like their memories or more importantly their culture is being hijacked. This makes it feel less diverse and more so that it is polarising; a white person may not be happy about a black superman and there is usually an outcry if a minority character is depicted by a non-minority (disability being portrayed poorly by Maddie Ziegler etc. Etc.).

However, it does have a role in targetted exclusivity. E.g. an extreme example is Brown Jesus is reimagined as white so that white people can worship him more readily. Even though logically he was living in Israel and you'd expect him to have a bit of a tan while living there. At least it's one of the theories why jesus was depicted as white that ive heard and it makes sense (correct me if you wish).

But in the context of superhero movies, are they trying for mass appeal? I think it's a no- based on how people feel when their characters/culture is hijacked. They are actually going for the opposite; they are making it so that they can sell black kids superman by making him less white in that specific instance. They actually want to create a bunch of niche markets with the same character being reimagined multiple ways rather than 1 character multifaceted.

It's a small but big distinction imo. If you don't like the idea of oceans 11 reimagined for girls (I didn't care for it) you don't have to watch it. It's not marketed for you, it's marketed for girls. It allows girls to more readily empathise and relate to the classic oceans 11 story. I'm not saying a girl cannot enjoy the OG but the OG wasn't catering to them and their wish fulfilment fantasies in the same way oceans 5(?) Does. That's the trick of all these new movies with minority in major roles.

The problem with this is that it's lazy and cheap and that shows. The writers aren't being inventive, they are being derivative and pandering. The actors and acting, they are just regurgitating and are probably painfully aware of their own role as a diversity signboard to sell tickets. There is usually no passion in such movies imo.

Another problem is that this type of art is very consumerist, it's non challenging in the way a real re-imagination of an archetype would be. I.e. A girl with a dragon tatoo isn't just your typical guy being reimagined as a girl, the protagonist has unique girl problems that has to be addressed within her context. It's original. I'm not sure I've ever seen a reimagination of an OG with a bolted on minority cast that has not just been a derivative.

Plus I think this superhero universe is actually hell on earth for movies. At first it started out as just a reboot to get kids to buy action figurines, but marvel people have found out that you can loosely link a bunch of crappy movies together and throw in a few cameos and people will flock to it.

But I digress, is this a good or bad thing having black Sherlock Holmes and wattson? Well in my mind, they are painfully worse than the original. But then, its not marketed for me. I remind myself that if that allows people to enjoy the story rather than be distracted by the fact their skins don't match, well I've always had a chance to look at the original so it's no skin of my nose.

Ended up being a lot longer than I expected in the end.

But here's another offtopic video showcasing how marvel movies are just vanilla to be consumed and forgotten:

 

Who watched female Ghostbusters?

 

It's a sure sign of the success of the original when parasites start latching onto it in order to try to pull themselves up.

 

I did and...

...you're absolutely right. A combination of bad copy/paste and an attempt at equality by dragging the level of humor down to what was okay in the 80s. But with women.

A pet peeve of mine is trying to achieve parity by dragging everything down to the lowest common denominator. Rather than everyone wallowing in the worst muck of the last century of film, how about let's try and get the male-centric films to be a little bit smarter and less sexist?

Ah, but I asked for a ban from the debate room so I'll just leave it at that.

 

Its done all the time, though.... Most recently, we had this discussion at my library. We have a list of guests who love Clive Cussler and whenever he comes out with a new book, we put them on hold for it.
Well, Clive Cussler died recently. The newest book thats coming out is a book written by Clive's son. Its something like "Clive Cussler's________ by Dirk Cussler".

The debate was "would they really want this?" Its not written by Clive. Yeah, its the same characters and everything, but different writing.
The consensus was, put the same Clive Cussler fans on hold for it like normal and let them make up their minds on it. The book isnt coming out for another few months, i believe.
I think its a cash grab whenever a writer dies and their relative picks up the story. Ive only read the first 2 lord of the rings books, but there are newer ones coming out and my coworker who LOVES the books hates the new stuff written by Tolkien's progeny. He says its just not the same. They try to be creative with the world but it just doesnt work.
But then you have an newer generation who actually enjoys it because it more relatable/understandable/whatever the case may be than the original books.

 

....and its written by a straight white female who is NOT from Washington DC
-cringe-

 

Are we talking about popularity or quality? I liked a lot of dumb stuff when I was young. I grew out of most of it.

 

Don't get me started on Brian Herbert's Dune books.

 

Both. A popular series/character can be (and has been) rewritten poorly.
Then you have some stuff of lacking quality becoming popular because of how "different" it is.

 

When my friends found out I did not see Black Widow, they suspected I was sexist. When they found out I did not watch Black Panther, there were murmurs I was racist. When it came out I have never seen a Marvel film in my life, there was only one thing to do: ostracize me from the circle.

(also have not seen/read Twilight, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, and 50 shades)

 

After carefully listening to both sides of this reasoned debate, here is where I stand on this matter:

 

Read the first one, threw it in the toilet, threw the toilet off the balcony.

 

You must have no joy in your life...

Consume what you want to consume, I don't see why people should care. But I do want to ask, did you feel no interest in trying to find out what the buzz was about?

I don't like everything mainstream, but I do like to see or analyse it and try to figure out its appeal. Just for my own personal interest.

 

I agree with this....
I started working for my library 3 years ago. This year we did a audit of materials. The idea was to see what we had so that we can know wherr to go from there.
Well... The adult collection (my collection) is 88% non-diverse (specific break downs came with the report).
I have to give a staff meeting on the results in 2 weeks and talk about efforts to diversify the collection. I am the only black degreed librarian and the only black ordering librarian for adult fiction.

Myself and managers JUST KNOW that there is going to be pushback from staff who will think that i am trying to replace white authors and stories with BIPOC authors and stories. They are going to feel attacked. They are going to feel like i had an agenda all along.
The meeting is in 2 weeks to give us a chance to try to figure these things out before we share the results.

Ugh....

 

Ohhh, I wish you luck. That sounds like it's gonna be a pain in the neck.