Do people seriously not get the difference between forced and organic representation?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by naruzeldamaster, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. Chromewriter

    Chromewriter Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    521
    Location:
    Australia
    You cannot convince people you don't have an agenda, because you do. The agenda is to try to allow more opportunities to minority authors.

    Just have to maybe own it and use your stats to back up the argument why they should try harder for those authors to be represented more. Sometimes people just won't agree in any case.
     
    J.T. Woody likes this.
  2. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2020
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    835
    Location:
    America's Heartland
    Easy fix. Just stock every book ever written and no one can accuse of you of anything
     
  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,454
    Likes Received:
    13,500
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Interesting. "Came with the report"? Who wrote the report? Did they compare the diversity of the books with the diversity of the city? The ratio should be about the same.
     
  4. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    Where I grew up still is 89% "non-diverse."

    [​IMG]
     
    Xoic likes this.
  5. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2020
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    835
    Location:
    America's Heartland
    partially I have a penchant for iconoclasm (without a cause), but mostly I don’t go out of my way to avoid these films and books, there is just always something a little more interesting for me.

    I probably would like game of thrones but that’s a huge investment in time I am not willing to make, so maybe that one is actively avoiding
     
  6. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    8,661
    The report doesnt look at city demographics.
    The report looks at the size of the library and the size of the collection, surveys libraries of similar sizes throughout the US, and averages it. Compared to the mass majority of libraries my size, ours falls behind the average.
    (Its a whole other argument about collection reflecting demographics, unfortunately....)


    The break down was the percentage of books we had in diverse areas... Black, indigenous, latino, etc.
    Disabilities, mental illness, LGBTQ.
     
  7. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,454
    Likes Received:
    13,500
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    How about where you live now? o_O

    [​IMG]
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
    Iain Aschendale likes this.
  8. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,454
    Likes Received:
    13,500
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    That's what I thought. So predictable. What then is their basis for acceptable levels of diversity? Absolutely equal levels of representation for black, white, Asian, Hispanic, etc?
    And that's the problem. That conversation needs to be had before anyone can go pushing for equality. First it must be determined what exactly equality means and on what basis it's being judged.
     
  9. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,136
    Likes Received:
    19,758
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    That got me looking... Providence is roughly 55% White, which seems to make sense. Libraries and other art "venues" up here are overwhelmingly diverse. Progressive Northeast and whatnot.
     
  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    It depends. If part of the purpose of the new work is to comment on the original stories and characters, then this is a good way to pull all of the content of the old stories into the new reimagining in a way that would be more difficult and probably less effective with entirely new characters.
     
  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    6,168
    Location:
    The White Rose county, UK
    I wonder how many people who complain about "white" characters being recast complain about the reverse phenomena.

    John Wayne as Genghis Khan, Tom Cruise in the Last Samurai (white saviour), Keanu Reeves in 47 ronin (another white saviour), Scarlett Johansson as Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell.

    Although it amuses me when the indignation is wrongly directed. I recall coming across complaints about Ben Kingsley as Gandhi. Ben Kingsley was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji.
     
  12. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    It is interesting to me to get to what is really going on with complaints about this sort of thing. I can understand someone who likes the source material saying that the reinvention or repurposes just isn’t their cup of tea. Fair enough. It may or may not be mine either, in any given instance. But the original source material remains in place, intact, and no one is forced to read the new material (except, perhaps, if assigned in a class). So, when I see anger or strong emotion, epithets, or what have you directed at the new works or even the idea of them, I feel like there is something more at work than simply being a fan of the source material.
     
    J.T. Woody likes this.
  13. Earp

    Earp Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    4,507
    Likes Received:
    8,247
    Location:
    Just right of center.
    And the James Patterson freaks who don't seem to care that almost all of 'his' books are written by someone else (yes, I know he isn't an author anymore, he's a 'brand', but still ...).
     
    J.T. Woody likes this.
  14. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    8,661
    I meant a whole other conversation for here lol. Id be derailing the thread too much.
    Its already being had in libraries, mine included. Webinars, annual conferences, etc.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  15. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,454
    Likes Received:
    13,500
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Well that's an encouraging sign.
     
    J.T. Woody likes this.
  16. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,260
    Likes Received:
    5,506
    That's an honored subsection of the Lame Section. Welcome, comrades. Pull up a throne and sit down.
     
    OurJud likes this.
  17. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    I saw the first episode of GoT. Didn’t make it any further into the series. Same thing with Walking Dead.
     
    Xoic likes this.
  18. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,260
    Likes Received:
    5,506
    Anne Hillerman took over writing books with father Tony's characters and has done a fine job, keeping the rhythm and flavor of the originals while adding her own influence. I like her work as well as I did her father's and am happy to have the series continue in such capable hands.
     
  19. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,454
    Likes Received:
    13,500
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    Same. Exactly.
     
  20. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    Likewise, when Cleopatra is not cast as black.
     
    Naomasa298 likes this.
  21. Madman

    Madman Life is Sacred Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    1,401
    Location:
    Sweden
    Cleopatra's race is a bit of a contentious subject.

    On topic:
    People seem obsessed with race these days. Who cares if a character is black or white? Even if it is non-fiction. I watched some English adaptation of the Illiad, or the Trojan war where Achilles was black, and it did not bother me.

    Diversity for me is human strength, it gives us uniqeness and character. I hope in the future that there will be as many colours of humans as there are flowers on Earth. Some people have wished for us all to become one race so that racism disappears, I think that is a silly wish, we will just find other ways of hating and classifying each other.

    Racism will be part and parcel of humanity for as long as we remain in this form and mind. And now that I end my comment, I too realise I may actually be obsessed with race and colour... ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
  22. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    Wikipedia notwithstanding, I haven’t seen a serious case made for her being anything other than a Macedonian of the Ptolemy line. The factual underpinnings of the counterarguments seem thin at best.
     
  23. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2019
    Messages:
    12,454
    Likes Received:
    13,500
    Location:
    Way, way out there
    I used to crack up as a kid watching white people playing Indians in the Westerns, and a white guy playing Charlie Chan. And I remember seeing so many actual Chinese Americans in the show Kung Fu and being impressed. That show broke a lot of ground. Of course a lot of Chinese worked on the railroads, and they hired actual Chinese Americans to play them. For many of the actors it was the beginning of long careers.
     
  24. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2020
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    835
    Location:
    America's Heartland
    Or in general (not withstanding Cleopatra’s origins) people confusing black with African.
     
  25. Chromewriter

    Chromewriter Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    521
    Location:
    Australia
    Fair enough. Time is valuable and if you have a backlog of other things to do then I can understand it.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice