1. FirstTimeNovelist91

    FirstTimeNovelist91 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    United States

    Do you agree w/George Orwell?

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by FirstTimeNovelist91, Sep 6, 2012.

    Do you agree with George Orwell when he states, "Never use a long word where a short one will do"?

    I have been reading a few "hit novels" and I see a ton of massive words and find myself having to go to the dictionary.

    Is it better to use small and simple words over long, flowery ones? Which do you prefer? Simple and layman's terms or more "educated" and verbose?
     
  2. Warp Zone

    Warp Zone New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    World 1-2
    Depends on how what you're writing, I guess. Orwell's Animal Farm is sometimes called a "fairy tale," and not entirely for joking purposes. A fairy tale gets a moral across using very simplified symbolism and easy reading, just like his book. But, I also like books that teach me new words, or ones that are just plain challenging, like Billy Budd, Sailor. Poe's works are able to be frightening yet wordy.

    However, the general public these days likes easier readings. If you're writing something you don't plan to publish, maybe writing it in a wordy fashion can be a sort of exercise for you. But if you want it published, make it a moderate or easy read.
     
  3. J. Blake

    J. Blake Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    FL
    I was reading an Ian Fleming novel today and he had 'Expostulated' as a dialogue tag. Good lord.

    Short and simple works better every time.
     
  4. JessWrite

    JessWrite Word Nerd & Proud! Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,245
    Likes Received:
    289
    Location:
    My Old Kentucky Home
    Long and flowery writing can be okay at times, but awfully confusing. At least for me. I'm not one who likes having to read a single sentence three times to get the meaning of the words used.

    With that said, I like to write short, sweet, and simple. :)
     
  5. Pheonix

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    406
    Location:
    The Windy City
    I don't know! I really don't. Usually that seems the best way to go. Other times it isn't. There are so many awesome words... Its a tough call and I think it depends on what you're trying to do.
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,261
    Likes Received:
    13,082
    I agree with him, but his advice doesn't mean that you don't use long words, only that you use them only when a shorter, simpler word won't do. Sometimes "old" or "worn" will do. Sometime you need "dilapidated." It all depends.
     
  7. captain kate

    captain kate Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    879
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Cruising through space.
    I believe in using the simplest word possible, even when using description, since reading comprehension levels are dropping like a rock. I also tend to lean towards the attitude of using the first word that comes to mind, even if it's a four letter word, and you can change it during your revision/editing process.

    But there's times where big words are necessary too. Once again, it just depends on what you're writing and your sense of feel for it.
     
  8. GHarrison

    GHarrison Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Agreeing with G. Orwell on writing is usually a good idea. By the way I learned a new word today: Fabulist.
     
  9. Danvok

    Danvok New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    I agree with George Orwell. If there's a more economical word that'll do, relatively, the same thing then why over-complicate things?
     
  10. Shaun4

    Shaun4 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    I agree for the most part, but you have to use the accurate word. Consider how the meaning changes when you sub in a shorter word:

    He was assassinated in his own home.
    He was killed in his own home.

    or:

    She was incredibly meticulous.
    She was very neat.

    In SOME cases, the small word strips away meaning and subtext the larger word provides. Mostly, though, Orwell's right.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. DefinitelyMaybe

    DefinitelyMaybe Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    856
    Likes Received:
    238
    Location:
    Leicester, UK
    I was tempted to reply with the single word "absolutely", instead of "yes". But since I'm new here I was worried that people might not realise that I was joking.

    And in modern novels, the "absolutely" would often be "abso-<word I"d prefer not to use in my own writing>-lutely", and hence even longer.

    I'm not a skilled writer and am blowing hot air, but I think that writing needs variety to maintain interest. And word length is one way of introducing variety.
     
  12. Kaidonni

    Kaidonni Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2011
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    9
    George Orwell's statement is an absolute, and it is never wise to deal in absolutes. As DefinitelyMaybe says, variety is necessary in writing. Shaun also hits the nail on the head when he states that different words can lend different meanings to a sentence. You can't account for every reader, you can't please everyone. If someone has to pick up a dictionary to learn a new word, boohoo, life is all about learning - even indirectly. I can guarantee there will be people who don't even get the shorter simpler words you will have to use until they check them up in a dictionary.

    Shorter words aren't necessarily simpler, either. How many people here - without looking at a dictionary, printed or online - would know the meaning of 'copse' or 'coppice'? Nice, short words, and perfectly viable, but plenty of people will be scratching their heads - I was when I first came across them.
     
  13. prettyprettyprettygood

    prettyprettyprettygood Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    I think you should use whatever word most accurately reflects what you're trying to convey - if you have two equally effective words then I agree that it would normally be best to use the most simple/easy to understand.
     
  14. ...

    ... New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    2
    Some words are simple to some and not to others. I wouldn't worry about it, you can even make words up if you like, just be you.
     
  15. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,830
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    In general, yes, but with a small but important addendum:

    Never use a long word where a short one will do as well.

    If the long word is more expressive, by all means use it. But for it to be truly expressive, your reader needs to understand the nuances of the word that make it more expressive. Otherwise, communication has failed, and the onus for that is on you, the writer.

    Writing is communication. Never forget that. You transmit, the reader receives. Of course, if what you are trying to transmit is "I'm smarter than you, and you should turn an adoring face up toward my golden visage," by all means, drag out the pretentious verbiage. That is successful communication in its own right, and the reader will clearly see the arrogance you are broadcasting.
     
  16. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,704
    Likes Received:
    3,425
    Location:
    Northeast England
    These are my thoughts exactly.

    I feel I should point out that one of the main things that runs through Orwell's essays, particularly those on language, is a conscious effort to be as clear and precise as possible. To say exactly what you think and not have anyone misinterpret. Orwell himself was never fanatical about these rules, especially with his earlier stuff - he was just giving advice on political language.
     
  17. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    847
    I'm with those who emphasize accuracy. I don't believe one has to 'dumb down' their writing - "dumb" people don't read, so why write for them? Use the word that gets the idea across best. That doesn't mean show off your own immense vocabulary and it doesn't mean over-simplify - it means use the best word.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Pheonix

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    406
    Location:
    The Windy City
    I think of all the responses on here I agree with this the most.
     
  19. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    3,204
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    I would say this is true in the majority of cases, as long as the larger word is truly appropriate. The operative phrase in Orwell's advice is "will do".
     
  20. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,490
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Orpington, Bromley, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
    I'll have to start using "dod" instead of "peevishness", then, and "orle" instead of "border". Or maybe length of the word isn't the issue. Never trust an absolute ;)
     
  21. ...

    ... New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    2
    Orwell is speaking figuratively. It's not exactly an absolute.
     
  22. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    847
    I would have no idea what you meant if you used those short words! :p
     
  23. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    ...not entirely... 'never' is almost never a good word to use when giving advice about creative writing...

    ...generally, yes... but that doesn't equal 'always'...

    ...neither... both have their places... it depends on what's been written and who's doing the writing... good writers can entrance me with either a shopping list, or a royal banquet menu...
     
  24. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    3,817
    Location:
    occasionally Oz , mainly Canada
    Sort of - Writing is all about precision but not at the sacrifice of style. Trim the fat without cutting out the flavor. If a short word
    works better than a long one put it in - but vice versa works too - sometimes a short word or phrase isn't enough to clarify
    your scene.

    Flowery and verbose - I don't think those are actually word picks, I think they're more the results of heaping on
    too much spice i.e. modifers , adjectives, adverbs.

    If I was to write - Jim cut a wedge of pie.
    add some dash - Jim cut a wedge of pumpkin pie.
    overload - Drooling, Jim cut himself a gigantic wedge of pumpkin pie.
    You might say the third has more flavor - why not add it too the next
    line -
    Jim cut himself a wedge of pie.
    His wife's eyes narrowed as she crabbed, "You took half the pie, look at the sliver you
    left me."
     
  25. DanesDarkLand

    DanesDarkLand New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    I did have to verify that I knew the meanings of those words, just so that I would not be blowing smoke. I remember researching this method of forestry when I needed to know information on early bronze age industry. It was a method the British had to use quite extensively to avoid stripping their very valuable forestry resources bare. Copse is so similar in spelling to corpse yet its refers to a stand of trees.

    In other words, I do agree, in part, with Orwell, but not completely. As long as the words are easily recognizable in modern day language, there is no reason to prevent yourself from using slightly larger words versus smaller ones, unless the smaller one gives more clarity to the idea. I don't think its a good idea to get into the habit of having to consult a dictionary in order to read a novel though.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice