Do you enjoy eggcorns?

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by somemorningrain, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Exactly. On this thread we're looking for the proper usage, not the popular one. It's unfortunate that dictionaries are caving in to popular misuses of words and phrases—especially after a few decades of bad schooling letting generations of students down in that department (as well as many others). The dictionary is supposed to be where you turn to learn the correct usage!
     
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  2. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    That’s a question of spelling though, not grammatical constructions.
     
  3. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I think you'll find it is...

    "would of"/"could of" is a homophone for would've/could've which are contractions of would have/could have; confusing the verb "to have" in conjunction with the active verb in the sentence - I would have gone cycling, but it was pissing down or I would've gone cycling, but it was pissing down. Sticking the preposition "of" in there -- I would of gone cycling -- makes no sense, not in English anyway.
     
  4. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Which is why I don't think it's a question of grammar; the people who make this mistake are very often native speakers of English who clearly have the present perfect tense in mind when they write the sentence. They are writing of because that is how the language sounds and possibly they have not reflected on written language very much.

    Granted, I'm not in these people's heads, but if English in some parts of the world has gotten to the point where would + of actually denotes a present perfect meaning, then that is a different question. But I don't think that's the case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  5. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Yeah, I think that's a big part of the problem with a lot of these—what I would call pseudo-literacy. Their exposure to written language is mainly through things like text messages and emails, where mistakes don't get corrected, as long as an actual word is used. A spell checker knows 'of' is a word, and it's spelled right, so it doesn't correct to 'have'.

    As I keep hearing, we apparently live in a post-literate world now. The written word doesn't have the primary importance it used to, except to us old-timers who must carry the torch, and youngsters who are either home-schooled, charter-schooled, or take it upon themselves to learn proper English and grammar.
     
  6. somemorningrain

    somemorningrain Member

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    The publication also reported that her balance sheets lodged at Companies House comes to nearly £41million - making her one of the richest women in entertainment. Adele's fortune is continuing to sky-rocket, with Adele making nearly £18million from her business without stepping foot into the recording studio in the last two years.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10097493/The-story-Adeles-song-six-years-LIZ-JONES-ALISON-BOSHOFF-verdicts.html

    cf. setting foot?
     
  7. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    "Stepping foot" appears to be making strong inroads recently. In the past six months or so I have encountered it in several articles ... and it grates jarringly every time I encounter it.
     
  8. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    If a study of the language has shown me anything, it's that one century's misuse is a later century's standard English, and vice versa. And dictionaries are caught in the middle of this torrent, always having to decide at what point the "misused" word or phrase deserves legitimacy.

    Please allow me to quote at length from Robert Claiborne's Our Marvelous Native Tongue, in his discussion of the creation of Johnson's dictionary:

    "As far as vocabulary was concerned, the sole possible standard was usage: the only way to tell what a word means is to determine what people use it to mean. And since it was obviously impracticable to poll some ten million Britishers individually on how they used words, lexicographers were compelled to depend on the words of men (and a few women) that had appeared in print. The resulting consensus left the "lower classes" almost unrepresented, and professional writers much overrepresented. No doubt there was a certain amount of social snobbery wrapped up in this, but wrapped up in the snobbery was an assumption that was no less persuasive for being unconscious: that those who had demonstrated their ability to use words with precision and eloquence were the best examples to follow in deciding how words should be used."
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  9. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    Another thing that drove one of my teachers crazy was the common pronunciation of jewelry as "joolery." It wasn't until years later that I found that the original spelling of "jewelry" was "jewellery," with four syllables. It became clear that some people found it easier to compress the first two syllables into one, while others compressed the last two syllables. The variation was evidently a regional thing.

    And then there's "nuclear," which even educated people (and some even involved in the industry) sometimes pronounce as "nook-u-lar." It will be interesting to see whether this pronunciation ever becomes prevalent enough to be considered "standard."
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  10. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    @JLT I'm well aware of all this. It's just a shame when it starts eroding literacy because of several generations of poor education. I personally refuse to dumb down my writing to appeal to the internet-illiterate masses. For the rest of my life I'll write for the literate thank you, at least to the extent my own literacy allows.

    Of course, many of my characters will suffer from various forms of illiteracy and egg-cornage. That's what keeps life interesting and characters real. But in the actual narration, unless it's done by a character, literacy is paramount (as I said, to what extent I'm capable). Therefore I believe it's important for writers to strive for literacy, since the written word is after all our coinage. Unless a writer uses an illiterate style of course. And if he does, it should be because he chooses to or is himself illiterate and presenting his personal style to the world as his trademark. And if a writer does choose to use an illiterate style, he should understand the difference, it shouldn't be out of ignorance.

    My opinion of course. And it used to be the overall opinion of the writing profession, when that was really a thing. These days even professionally edited and published books are rife with eggcorns and errors of all kinds, largely because I believe editing is being farmed out to spell checking software, and because the use of spell-checkers has eroded the ability of even pro editors to really edit effectively. But none of this means it's incumbent on any or all of us to go with this trend if we don't choose to. When the whole world is marching toward the edge of the precipice, I won't be marching along with them but standing back in bemused silence wondering at the strangeness of human habit and mob response. And I would hope a few others who consider themselves writers will remain behind with me.

    Yes, absolutely, future generations will happily use this dumbed-down language and most will never even know. Or care. And that's fine, that's as it should be. But I'll continue to use English as I learned it, and as my compatriots have always known it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  11. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

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    @Xoic you reminded me of this: https://xkcd.com/1483/

    unfortunately the linguists are coming after you
     
  12. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    How about "Feb-yoo-ary"?
     
  13. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    This is why I still use the 14th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style, even though I own the 16th. And I stopped buying Roget's International Thesaurus after the fifth edition. My understanding is that the most recent edition is virtually unusable.
     
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  14. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    I wasn't under the impression that that pronunciation is considered incorrect?
     
  15. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    It is decidedly incorrect around here.
     
  16. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Hm, where might that be?
     
  17. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    (To the tune of Welcome to the Jungle): Do you know where you are? You're on the Eggcorns thread, where perfectionism reigns supreme—where we call out the mispronunciations and misspellings and misappropriations of the muddleheaded huddled masses so we can feel superior and train ourselves to write right, rite? We don't got no lo standreds here bebbi!

    I've already discovered several things I was doing wrong and I'm thankful for it! I'm here to improve my English to the umpteenth level.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  18. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    no i’m legitimately curious
     
  19. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Look dude—the outside world is where the standards of language are being lowered and degraded. This thread in particular is our refuge from that. Here we celebrate the exquisite aspects of the English language at it's highest level (or as high as we're capable of reaching anyway). How many times/ways do I have to say it?

    I suppose nobody can stop you from pushing for lowered standards in here too. I'm not sure what the point of that is? If you want lowered standards you can find them just about everywhere else. Why try to bring them down in here too? Yeah, you can keep saying "It's good enough", but that's not going to stop us. Good enough is not good enough for this thread. Only proper English to the highest level we're capable of is. That's the whole point of this thread.

    Good day sir.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  20. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    How else could it be pronounced?
     
  21. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    My region of the United States -- and that's all I care to reveal about my location on an Internet forum.
     
  22. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Feb'-roo-ary, of course.

    Just as it's spelled.
     
  23. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    The point of this thread was unintentionally humorous variations on common words and phrases. I’ve probably assisted in (sorry, should that be “with”?) the derail (oops, “derailment”) as much as anyone, but I don’t think the thread was made as an altar to prescriptionist grammar.

    As for lower standards, I don’t know where I’ve advocated for that. I’ve said that language changes, and that new structures and phrases and so forth that are taken up as common usage by a large proportion of the population should be accepted as such. But I'm game to return to just posting eggcorns if you are.
     
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  24. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Good enough for me.
     
  25. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Get a room...
     

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