Well in this case the universe is a living organism - the planet is how it remains indigestion/illness free. When unbalance happens at the centre that is how natural disasters occur etc. She was the first imbalance. And it wasn't she didn't intend it she just didn't pray.
And I think this is the crux of it: They 'why didn't she pray'. You can say that she doesn't have a reason, however this will be a question that a reader will ask. If the person is sentient, knew that she would be imbalanced by not praying, and etc.... then her not praying was a conscious decision. Unless she simply did not believe that any imbalance would occur, and that (though not being a personal reason) would be a reason for the reader.
I don't think she knew an imbalance would occur. Not even sure the Universal Father (god character), knew what would happen. She couldn't have understood the 'evil' concept because there was no evil, no harm, no natural disasters, no death within her ken. Her only knowledge might have been a lingering feeling towards the sea that spewed them out. (in my book the sea is the devil/hell). It is more she got distracted by something, didn't do it. Nothing bad happened so she did more not doing it.
Sounds good then. Even just having that reason for her to exist as is for the reader is enough, and if played well can make her a very sympathetic, or very love-to-hate like character. Some other questions I would keep in mine is what was her reaction when she noticed she was becoming imbalanced, and did she try to undo it? Both of these can be very key components to her character and shine light on how deep the imbalance goes. Did she just never notice, not even now? Hope you don't mind me asking these questions, I am just genuinely curious. XD I love character development and like to dig my teeth into it for thought exercises.
no I don't mind she is the biggest thorn in the side of my stories lol I hate her even if my readers don't. She is almost a dumb blonde in places, bossy, teenager like almost. I don't know what she did originally - maybe I need to write a short story about Izanami and Lucinda to work it out lol it is so far back outside the reaches of my stories. They are tens of thousands of years old I think I said 4000 but answer is I don't know. Izanami had children and died about 800 years ago - one of her son's fathered my MC and another son fathered the partner of my MC. They only died about 100 years ago. She did cover it up - she blamed one of her nephews, he got the blame for being the Lord of Evil for hundreds of years (my MCs father turns out to be case of mistaken identity as he is a pacifist vegetarian monk), and then another got the blame (the partner's father, he was actually a bad character). Everyone began to think it was a lot of people in succession. Somehow she went from forgetting to pray to masterminding all evil forces, controlling the magic, without not even her sister suspecting. Like I say she was a school secretary for hundreds of years working alongside some of the wisest and oldest characters in my book. Think Dumbledore crossed with Yoda but scary with red hair and a boyfriend, and children.
has anyone watched Baki the Grappler? In that the main villain- Yujiro- the protagonists father is to me the least interesting character in the series? Why? They build him up as an impossibly powerful warrior- no one can hurt him (which imo is too much) But his main fault is thhat he basically has no purpose for being a villain- he just pops up occasionally and beats people up and diasppears with no reason. Thats why to me he's not a good villain- no point, no purpose, hes just a presence- There's another lesser villain Jack Hanma- who actualy has a reason for being (he wants to beat up Yujiro and so abuses steriods, and is kinda crazy from it) You get my point?? Pointless evil is just boring
A character is only "flat" if they are not well developed. Obviously if your villain will have a lot of "page time" you should invest some time into developing the character. Usually a good way to develop a villain is fleshing out the psychological reasons why (s)he does what (s)he does. But if the character is interesting in other ways good ol' selifhness/greed should work fine. Depending on the nature of the villain. If the villain is racist, for instance, a reason other than "just because" is probably a good idea or it just seems like a cheap tactic to make them despicable. IMO, at least.
Definitely not racist, she wants to harm every last living being including herself lol She is no respector of persons After all these posts my character still has no reason for her evilness.
Then let her do it For The Evulz. Ledger's Joker is one of the most popular villains in pop culture, and this is his motivation. So it can work.
Joker does not have the motive of greed, like many of his fellow villains, but he is obviously not a sane and well-adjusted person. He suffered a cataclysmic loss and went insane. This is a pretty solid motive behind his actions, even though they may not be orchestrated to produce a definitive end goal, like most other villains. One would have to be very careful with this kind of villain, and it is not the type of character that should be used too often, I think. Elgaisma, I'm sorry if I missed any information, I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems that your villain has been around a very long time and is a powerful force, right? It only makes sense to me that an immortal and powerful consciousness would get bored after awhile, and if they have little or no empathy for the mortal inhabitants of the realm, they might very well start to use them as a form of entertainment. Kids put bugs in jars and shake it to make them fight, and if we don't consider this an evil act, its because we don't think bugs can feel very much. But the kids do it for the same reasons your villain might be causing trouble; boredom and power. It sounds like you already have a motive for her, it's just not a typical one.
One of the best villains I have ever seen had "dying" as his only motivation for inciting a war, killing millions of people and generally being a huge jerk. He has no Freudian excuse in his past, just pure madness. Seen here holding a 5-minute speech on how much he loves war and doesn't care who wins or loses. This guy is simply so incredibly inhuman that one cannot help but admire him.
Does she enjoy hurting others? If she finds pleasure in it, then that's a reason too. "Because it's fun." It might be even more interesting if your villain is NOT insane (not assuming she is, but just saying) - villains who do evil for the sake of evil tend to act a bit insane, so we have an excuse (oh it's because he's out of his mind etc). But a sane person who would like to hurt for the sake of hurting is almost unheard of, and a very difficult and unpleasant idea for us to wrap our heads around. Now, if you could pull that off, I'd say that's SKILL! Could be a fun challenge? Tbh, even the Joker, I'd say had a reason for his evils. He didn't sound insane - his body language and manic laughter implied a level of mental instability etc, but everything he said was so smart, witty and often made so much sense. He saw through things - he saw through what even Batman didn't see through, he's a mastermind. That makes him interesting and almost admirable (perhaps wrong word, but you get the point). But in the end, he had a reason - it was to show people that everyone is as evil as he is, everyone's the same as he is. He was trying to prove a point - remember his disappointment when the boats didn't blow each other up and Batman gives him the speech? And how the Joker burnt all his money in front of the criminals? He was trying to prove a point - which means, even he had a reason.
No she doesn't particularly like hurting people or she would have done it more often. She only hurts people if they get in the way of something she is doing. She is slightly unhinged at the moment and has a reason for what she is doing but both of them are new. For thousands of years she has been sane, for thousands of years she didn't have a reason. It seems only in past hundred years has she decided she wants to die and is destroying the universe for that reason. Before that she was completely sane, and aside from a little not out of control sibling jealousy she had no reason. If she was that jealous of the swan she would have killed my character years ago. She had the means.
In that case, it sounds like she does have a reason - she wants to die. Or do you mean you wanted to find her a reason for her evils before now? (as you said she didn't have a reason for thousands of years) But if she only hurts people when they get in the way, then that's a reason too - she wants to get what she needs to do done. From what you've written, she doesn't sound flat at all. Btw, I've been reading all kinds of stuff about your characters on this forum, and now I'm really intrigued! What's your story about and do you have a first draft or something for me to read? (How long is it? First book, obviously.)
I don't believe it's necessary that evil needs a reason. However, with that said, theres nothing more compelling than reading about the bad guy who feels they are in the right. One of the best "bad guys" I have read is a character named Tobias Bergen in the 3rd Sword of Truth book. He was a bad man, but he actually thought God (In this book he's called the maker) talked to him and told him magic was bad, and to erradicate anyone who used magic.
There is a big difference between doing bad things (or things others consider bad), and being evil. In the old fable of the frog and the scorpion, the scorpion did a bad thing -- from the frog's perscpective -- but was not evil. It was simply in the nature of the scorpion to sting. Now, if you are talking about evil with a capital 'E' then Evil is its own reason. That sort of Evil exists to be evil, to oppose good. IMHO you need to decide (and perhaps you already have) if your character is a scorpion just being what she is, or part of the more fundamental capital 'E' evil. Once you have that distinction firmly in your head then you can parse it out to your readers.
She is the Matriach of Evil - she began it all without Lucy (I named her Lucinda three books before I knew she was the devil lol no connection to Lucifer intended). I don't think she sees anything wrong in what she is doing. Even killing the universe - to her dying is a good thing, everyone else has to do it sometime anyway. The only one she feels guilty about is my MCs sister Ivory who like Lucy cannot die as she is infertile (Ivory's father was in crow form when he had an incident with a different type of female crow), however Lucy also thinks she is doing her a favour. Ivory kind of agrees with her she has had a bad time recently and wants to move on.
I believe that an interesting villain needs a reason for his/her evil, or at least an endgame in mind. Chaotic evil villains aren't capable of much rational thought, and tend to write their own demise. I agree with you that not all villains require an elaborate backstory to explain away their evil deeds, but they should at least have an overarching philosophy to tie their misadventures together.
I'm going to say Evil needs a reason because of a question I am constantly asked. Whenever I explain a villain, everyone's first question always is; "Why?" You tell them just how horrible this character is, how truly evil they are and they always want a reason. As characters, villains are really quite limited if you consider it, they must be doing negative, or doing wrong. The reason behind their actions IS there character. Asking does evil need a reason is like asking does a character need depth. Only if you want your story to be good, or if it's a horror story.
I think the real question here isn't, "Does evil need a reason?" There's always a reason. The question is, does evil require external motivation, ambition, greed, etc... The answer, in my opinion, is no. For evidence I call upon my favorite villainess of all time, Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty. Now there is pure, unadulterated evil at its best and for no other reason than she enjoyed it. And on that, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.
I've pretty much just scanned the replies to this thread, so pardon me if I repeat what anyone else might have said. You saying this kind of scares me. This is your character that you created from the womb of your imagination, but you don't seem to know her too much (you know her personality, I suppose, but that's about all I get?) except she wants to be evil because she's evil. I think that in itself would be enough for me to turn and walk away. Granted, I don't read very much fantasy these days (with the 4000 years old ordeal, you've reminded me of another reason why I don't), but that's me personally. 4000 years is a long time, and with a lot of history behind it. Sure she might not remember everything. In some novels where characters are evil, they actually force themselves to forget what motivated them to be that way, but there's still the reason for it. I don't know if you've found the reason for your character to be evil or not yet, but I do think there needs to be something there for them to be that way. Otherwise, it's like me being sarcastic because it's how I am. Or that I hate babies because they are babies. No, there's a reason behind it--an event in history. I used to say a lot of sarcastic things when I was a kid and got a load of attention for it, and I continue to do the same to this day. The babies? I get headaches very easily, so when they start crying, I grit my teeth and wish for them to be quiet or I have to leave. So whenever babies or kids are near me, I wait for the moment when they start screaming. Back to the character. If you're reading a story about a character that has no reason to be evil, why continue reading it? You have to let the reader care for the character in some way. To love or despise them, and for that to happen, there needs to be a reason. Like I stated before, I don't go for fantasy anymore, but I believe all evil characters--gods, humans, ghosts, dragons, etc.--are all equal on the outside (being that they want to cause harm to one thing or another), but all have their wires crossed on the inside in different ways which makes them unique. Here's a quote from On Writing Horror: I did mention I'm not much into fantasy, right? Hehe, horror/thrillers are more my thing. :redface: To name one of my favorite evil characters: Frank Miller in Survivor tried to have his daughter-in-law, Lisa, raped and murdered in a snuff film. He liked to watch extremely hardcore S&M, because it turned him on, he got satisfaction from it. He kept that side of him hidden, however, once Lisa became part of the family, he fantasized her being one of the victims in the films he always watched. He felt that she somehow owned him, so he felt he had to take control of her. He wanted to watch her suffer and have a visual documentation of it. As for a god, though...they have thought processes just like humans, right? Each one has a specific...what's the word I'm looking for? Role, I guess? You could have a god of nature, chaos, fire, illusion, etc. All that fun stuff, but each one does their own thing for a specific reason, right? I feel like I ramble too much...
My current book borderlines on horror it is just set in the same world/universe as my other stories. This is Lucy: Mrs. Lucinda MacDragoon - lady with a tight bun of auburn hair, bright blue eyes hidden behind gold rimmed spectacles. She wears smart suits and sits behind the desk out side the headmaster's office at the prestigious Royal Academy, where she sternly peers over her spectacles at errant boys and terrrifying the masters that teach there. My character is one hundred and fifty - was even her boss for a time, when he was deputy headmaster. She still makes him feel like a naughty seven year old. She has shown random acts of kindness throughout the books, when my MC in my first book was upset outside the office she got him water and a sandwich. She actually helped save my MC from this book in the current story. That is the character I have created and written for 1 young adult novel, two adult novels and a novella (don't think she is in the adult novel I am part way through in humanoid form). In this book I discover she is the sister of Izanami (my Eve type character, sort of), She was the second creature in the universe ever to be created. My MC is pre-mortal (same race as Izanami and Lucinda, they only begin to die when in human form - bird incidents and turkey basters don't count- when they reproduce naturally). However he has a weakness no other pre-mortal has and Lucinda knows how to kill him. He has let himself go and in a practice fight she kicks his tail, her magic is better etc. It is only when she pulls a gun on his boyfriend near the end we find out she has been the Great Skua/Lord of Evil thoughout the other books as well). Her sister is roughly Eve and she is the devil. So she is probably much older than four thousand. This is what I know about Lucy.
the villain of the story I'm re-writing is he is Usurper of the throne that is legally my hero's throne. So anything done within the story is to stop the hero and the heroine coming a bit TOO friendly (hint, hint) or after the two do come a bit too friendly to separate them (and try to kill off the legal heir.)
