I’ve read through the whole thread, and I can see what you’re thinking. I’m not an up-and-running writer, so I can’t offer much in that direction. However, the sort of story you’re outlining reminds me of the Faith trilogy written and directed by Ingmar Bergman (movies, not books, so not ideal). They all do a great job of propelling an exploration/lack/loss of religious belief through characters. They’re potentially another source for seeing how your type of story can be done. I think the three films are Seventh Seal, Winter Light and Through a Glass Darkly.
The point I was trying to make with the Gideon the Ninth example was about the importance of hooks in log lines. In the actual novel, the characters have compelling character and story arcs, way more so than the longline or the back cover summary convey. But, the book also has many high concept elements that are unique and interesting. High concept sells. A friend of mine recommended me the book with just the first longline I mentioned and I bought it on the spot, and I’m the sort of person who normally stands in a bookstore and reads the entire first chapter before making a decision even with a recommendation. I would not have bought the book on the spot with the your one sentence summary because it’s missing most of the intriguing elements from the original, and the black humor from the three sentence version (character voice being another big selling point for this particular novel). Gideon the Ninth had so many high concept hooks that it’s advertisements don’t even need to get into the meat of the story or character. Most stories don’t have that kind of hook and therefore still need to do something more along the lines of what you’re talking about (and what you’re talking about is also good tool for the author to see if their story structure is solid, which is not necessarily the final advertising pitch) But it definitely showcases how building in hooks can bolster a logline.
My story isn't for Christians though, like what's my target audience? It's those who are ex-christians, those who are spiritualists, those who are Christians but are lost in their understanding as to why God refuses to stop evil and suffering. That's who my novel will appeal to and to them, they won't find it combative. Just like Fifty Shades of Grey isn't for everyone. It's for those who like sex and lots of it and sexual abuse and all that ridiculousness. My novel isn't telling people what they should or should not believe in. It's telling of the belief that the main character in MY story came to, the belief that HE came to, no one else and it's his story that I'm sharing with the world but the lesson in this story is that you don't need an external source to live your life. That's the lesson OF THE STORY, not the lesson I'm trying to push out on people. And the reason why it hasn't been obvious to you that the character and the world around him changes for him, is because you, like agents, publishers and etc refuse to read the novel. I had one woman read the story and it moved her to tears and she thanked me for writing a story that spoke to what she herself went through. This story would be huge, I know it but I just need help getting into the right hands and instead of receiving help, I'm getting, "oh, it's combative," "or I don't see character arcs." If I put in every character arc, every conflict the main character faces in a synopsis, it would be more than ten pages, and according to ridiculous agents, you're supposed to break down a 180-200-300 page novel into a page or less. Anyway, you don't get the story, I get it, maybe it's because a lot of people have close ties to Christianity so when they see stories like this, it comes off to them as defensive. I guess I just have to get help from writers who write stories like mine, and then they'll look at the synopsis and know exactly where my story is coming from, because they write stories like mine as well.
Thank you, exactly. My story is one that will appeal to three types of people: Non-Christians, atheists - (who I discovered on Tiktok, are bountiful with people who believe God and Lucifer are one and the same) and Christians who are teetering are giving up on their Christianity because God isn't answering them. My story is fairly simple but I get that certain people who either are Christians or who were Christians may see this story and get offended, of which I don't really care. My story isn't for them. I'm not writing a Kirk Cameron feel-good, God story. So thank you for getting what I'm trying to do.
I'd never argue with that - I'd always second any recommendation for the OP to spice up the logline with as many lesbian necromancers as possible once they're ready to submit.
I'd try and suppress thoughts of 'agents refuse to read my novel' and 'this book would be huge, I know it' if you want to be traditionally published. I doubt agents refuse to read any novel, it's just they only have a finite time to read and aren't going to devote it to something that is going to be a hard sell (either because the quality isn't good enough or the target audience is small or other reasons). I'd try and figure out what things agents look for in a query/synopsis and tailor yours after that, but being as true to the story as possible. Yes, agents are people too and I'm sure there are some things they won't touch, but I doubt your story is combative enough to do that (somehow OJ's book 'If I Did It' got representation and presumably a ghostwriter). Some agents may think, based on your current synopsis that it won't appeal to enough readers to be worthwhile to represent. So it would then be your job to change it to one that gives them the right impression. But how do you even know if agents refuse to read it? Have you started querying and are picking the right agents?
Do books even need a one sentence logline? Based on your synopsis, and my limited idea of what a logline is, I'd write "A grieving father asks God why he is suffering but doesn't believe the answer"
I think I'm just going to give up writing. It's not fun anymore and I'm probably a shitty writer who couldn't sell a pamphlet let alone a novel, so thanks anyway but I just think I should leave writing to the pros.
Don’t give up. Remember that you can’t read tone on message boards. What seems brutal may actual be meant supportively. Plus I’m exploring similar themes in my WIP, and it would be handy to trade critiques with you. Even the professionals get this. I’m not a pro, but I just finished a philosophy book and the editor sent it back three times. I got great feedback each time but the comments and questions all seemed to be harsh- mainly because of my own inner monologue being so critical of myself anyway. When I read the emails back later I realised I’d missed all the lovely comments. I know it’s harder to get the lovely stuff here- but it’s a place that invites the negative, because that’s how we improve. It’s also an open forum for discussion, so folks raise issues, questions and so on. Don’t see it as undermining you. Often people are throwing ideas around. If someone is rude, call them out. Otherwise, read the comments charitably. My greatest regret is dropping my phd out of fear. I didn’t even read the feedback on the draft of my first chapter. I didn’t lead a seminar about my work. I basically felt awkward and out of place because everyone else knew how the game worked and I didn’t. I’d be Dr GeoffFromBykerGrove now if I’d have put that behind me and listened to the three or four folk on the programme that were supportive and telling me not to worry, and pointing out the people who were notorious pains in the ass. Don’t give up.
I confess that I had never heard of Maltheism until reading your post. That said, I have to wonder what your idea of "spiritualist" (lower case 's') is because, as a practicing Spiritualist (capital 'S') clergyman, I can assure you that Spiritualists do not believe that God is evil, and someone who believes that is not a Spiritualist.
@MissNovember, I must confess that I didn't read your work on the workshop, but I still have one advice for you: When someone repeatedly misses your point, I suggest ignoring their subsequent posts instead of futilely replying to them. Not all advices from strangers on the Internet are useful, anyway.
I think I remember seeing a story like this in the Workshop a few weeks ago (but without the fantasy elements: parasites and archons). The worry would be that "Man realises he's agnostic" isn't a satisfying character arc, it's just polemical.
That isn’t always the case. Think about Socrates. The discovery of our own ignorance is itself a form of wisdom. It isn’t about realising that we just don’t know something, but about the change in character that people need to go through in order to accept it. I teach philosophy for a living, and the biggest barrier most of the students have is saying “I don’t know” because they see it as a sign of failure, or a sort of index of stupidity. Some of them spend two years going through quite a radical change where they find peace in saying “I don’t know, I don’t think we can know, and I’m not sure we need to worry about that”.
