Not there. I think it may have been...no, it wasn't on motherinlawstories. Where was it? Oh! I think it was a Usenet forum, centuries ago. Maybe. My memory is clogged with fuzz.
I've always taken it to mean someone who continually skirts the boundaries of acceptable behavior with the intent to provoke, but then retreats behind a wall of excuses when that behaviour is challenged.. thus they are constantly on the edge of ban worthy behaviour but not quite there hence the name .... like Phil basically
I love Chicken's suggestion, though I'll be going for "This belongs in the debate room" because just "Debate room" won't make any sense to new members (who are often the ones who cause trouble, through ignorance or intent). Much like Chicken, I hate letting bigoted or downright wrong posts go unchallenged, because that shit needs to be called out.
Debate is really useful, whether it's a non-writing topic in the Debate Room or a writing topic on other threads. I think it's a mistake to hope we'll all agree on everything. We certainly won't. I can think of several contentious (writing) topics that I will nearly always respond to, one way or another. I think my viewpoints are valid, I'm willing to give my reasons for my opinions, and I feel I have the right to register my view whenever certain topics come up. I don't expect everybody to agree with me. However, I do expect to have the right to express and defend my opinion—even if it's not a popular or majority opinion—without having it twisted and shoved down my throat. If we all make an effort to: 1) Say our piece (in a courteous way) as completely as possible, perhaps clarify it in one or two more posts ...and then walk away from that thread if things heat up and 2) Disagree with another person, but refrain from name-calling (you are a ____) or putting words in the other person's mouth (so what you're really saying is ____) or taking a person's words out of context and nitpicking the meaning We can all express ourselves without causing a ramie. It's absolutely not necessary to always have the last word!
Agreed. People need to have enough confidence in their arguments to not keep repeating the same thing over and over.
Thing is genuine debate between genuine members is useful. Provocative trolling by people who get off on causing discord isn't (nor is arguing with said troll, however well intentioned the arguer is, because that's what the troll wants)
@Wreybies is certainly right that the best way to stave off trolling is to alert the mods, let them deal with it, and do nothing else, but I think that's only a portion of the solution, albeit a large one. We've already mentioned cursing but I think it bears mentioning again. There's a difference between saying "shit" and "shit head." "Shit" could be anything but "shithead" is personal. When someone says something like "yeah, whenever a shit head starts trolling, I ...." someone on the forum is being called a shithead. It's not a direct attack at a specific person necessarily, but it's implied that shitheads exist on the forum and that at least one of us is one. In my opinion, this is unnecessarily nasty and actually helps maintain a vibe conducive to trolling. Ideally, disrespect is simply not tolerated, period. It doesn't matter if you're disrespecting a gender, a particular forum member, or nameless forum member. Forum members should strive for positivity, even when faced with the opposite.
+1 Joking aside, this feels like it's turning into an "Air your pet peeves about other forum members' behaviour" thread, which is not only off topic but not really conducive to anything but stirring up bad feeling and making people feel attacked. The only behaviour we can control is our own. Laying down ground rules for how others should post, unless you're Daniel, isn't going to lead anywhere good. Focus on what you can change in yourself and you'll be happier.
Reopening this thread because I was gone for a really long time dealing with an actual, real-life, post apocalyptic situation. For anyone who cares: As romantic as the now passing wave of YA PA fiction may make it sound, it's really, actually a horrendous nightmare where life checks you - hard - as regards what you think is necessary, what you think your place in the world is, how important you are as in individual in the grand scheme of the cosmos, and more important that any of that, the importance of people who actually reach out to help you in a way that can change the way you see that person forever. I have a couple of boxes of instant soup that were sent to me from friends in Finland, and I enjoyed the soup, but I cannot bring myself to throw away the boxes (all in Finnish). They mean too much to me. I actually hate bumping this thread because it reinforces a cynical cycle wherein I think to myself: Adults should be able to engage one another in an adult fashion without interference from us regarding what they talk about. They should. So why is it that they so often don't? From the OP of this thread, the core of what seems to need reiteration right now: ---------------------------- If you're asking yourself what constitutes trolling, allow me to explain because I want to be really clear on this: Don't make the mistake of conflating aggressive ass-hatterie with freedom of speech. They are not one and the same. Cults of personality will not be suffered here in any sort of de facto status over the de jour management. Here, in this forum, the Rule of Law is play nice or play elsewhere. It really is as simple as that. That is the meter by which things are measured. I don't care if you're just starting out as a writer or if you're Stephen Effing King. I don't care what your views or opinions are. I don't care what crusade you're on or what axe you have to grind. I don't care if you lean Left or Right, Tory or Labour, Republican or Democrat, Religious or Atheist, Omnivore, Herbivore, Carnivore, Gay, Straight, Lesbian, Bi, Trans, Ace, whatever. None of that matters because none of that should matter. Raving Radicals, I'm talking to you. Raving Reactionaries, I'm talking to you. Garden Variety Trolls, dropping matches just to watch the fire, I am most certainly talking to you. If you can't play nice, you can't play here. If you can, then grab a cup of coffee, find a comfy chair, and make yourself at home. ---------------------------- It really, genuinely, honestly is that simple. As a group, the staff in this forum is more likely to err to the side of leniency than aggressive overcontrol. None of the staff are volunteers who put up their hands wanting a little power. I chose all of them for various reasons and had to coax and romance each of them into the roll. I freely admit it because I think it just works better that way. So when they have to resort to corrective action, it's usually after a lot of rope has payed out, and the situation is clear. I'm dead serious as regards not caring about your views or stances on anything. It's pointless, really. You're just photons on the screen. All I care about is your manner of engagement.
Guess Wrey is none to thrilled with PA for a while, not that I can say I blame him. Can't imagine the ordeal he went through, and it is nice knowing that he has weathered that storm.
Strictly speaking you are just pixels unless someone is using a CRT monitor ( I know pixel emit light, but you, I everyone are black text, and thus in fact the absence of photons)
@Wreybies I'm on a few online workshops, so I see it all. You did nothing wrong that no other mod on any other respectable site wouldn't have done. The job of a moderator is to moderate which means you guys have to do things that are sometimes not popular. The membership needs to listen. If you say, don't do A, and I do A, I should not be surprised when I am punished, nor should any other member. -OJB
Serious question: If you see a series of forest fires, and when you look back, there seems to often be one person who was just standing around having a cigarette right before it happened, how do you go about reporting that? The taps of the ash aren't anything too inflammatory, but somehow they seem to be in the right (or wrong) place at the right time. What my the disciplinary reports I used to get referred to as "a pattern of negative behavior".
I've been thinking about that a lot recently... I've come to two conclusions: If somebody is routinely causing fights, the mods have probably noticed on their own. Honestly, we all probably hate somebody. Frankly, I'd like to stab this one guy with a pencil. JMO, though.
"On this day, the 9th of February, we mourn the passing of our dear friend and fellow writer @Homer Potvin . He was an entertaining and thoughtful fellow, beloved husband, avid woodsman, and devout Patriots fan. Now that he has been taken from us, we shall not rest until we find those who have taken him from us with their most horrific of weapons: A standard issue #2 Pencil. May he rest in the great beyond, know that his sudden (yet slightly ironic) murder will not go un-avenged. Now brothers and sisters in writing, a moment of silence for the dearly departed." "May he be writing with the great typewriter in the Heavans."