Dragon Riders?

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Ritrezer, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. J.D. Rand

    J.D. Rand New Member

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    Have you considered reading the Temeraire novels, written by Naomi Novik? Those books are basically an alternate history with the premise of "Napoleanic Wars + Dragons," and they've done a great job of integrating them into the world - dragons and their riders are effectively the 1800s equivalent of the Airforce, and everyone in the world knows of their existence. I've read the first three books in the series, and I fell in love with them.

    On the subject of keeping your dragons a secret in the 'real world'. How well such a secret can be maintained largely depends on how many of them there are. If you have a few hundred of them operating from a central hub (a gateway into the other world, perhaps?) then there wouldn't be as much of a problem. However, if there are thousands upon thousands of them across the world, then the simple fact is that sooner or later, ESPECIALLY at today's level of technology, their existence will become widely known. Even with the most highly trained professionals armed with cutting-edge technology, mistakes still happen, and all it takes is for the plan to fail and the contingency to go wrong. Perhaps a dragon dies close to a populated region - and the Disposal Squad runs into problems either trying to reach the location of the corpse or trying to hush up dozens of civilians already on the scene with smart-phones and cameras. Suddenly, you have pictures and eyewitness news articles of an actual dead dragon spreading all over the internet and millions of people across the country going on a daily 'dragon watch,' and the government and the military and the mainstream news suddenly get involved. There are going to be a TON of people who are going to want solid answers, and trying to denounce the whole incident as a hoax isn't going to bring things back to what they were before.

    Believe it or not, story-wise, this is far from being a bad thing. It would actually make your series very exciting to read.

    Honestly, my personal opinion is that you have a golden opportunity to put the public's discovery of the dragons and their riders much earlier into your series, instead of at the very end. I.E. Trying to maintain that secret becomes a sub-plot or a frequently mentioned element within the first story - not unlike the wizards in the Harry Potter books keeping themselves hidden from the public. It could serve as foreshadowing for a major plot point of the second book, when this matter of secret-keeping reaches a crisis point for this organization, and word of their existence ultimately comes to light. The next books after that could put a sub-plot focus on the dragon riders and their attempts to integrate into the public world - a heated rivalry between the dragon riders and the Air Force alone would make for great material while both groups are forced to work together to deal with the main threat of that story. There are going to be enterprising people who will immediately see the dragons as a grand opportunity, and given that your dragons are sapient creatures, someone out there is going to want to hire a few. Others are going to take one look at them and harbor intense, loudly vocal xenophobic tendencies towards them; one word from the Pope that the dragons are an affront to God or some-such, and you suddenly have the whole world getting thrown into the argument of the century over it.

    It all seems like a lot, but many of these details would only need to be mentioned a few times to get the point across. Others are going to be significant enough to go some distance in shaping the story's plot. In the end, it makes for a lot of rich world-building.

    Going back to Harry Potter, keep in mind that the Ministry of Magic, Britain's wizard government, still had some level of interaction with Britain's actual government. Your dragon riders could be similar, in that they also maintain ties to the government while still being a secret organization. It's a small detail to add in, but it goes a long way in adding a level of making your stories more believable, because there are a vast number of government/military funded agencies that make it their business to know every secret and exploit it for their gain. One of your protagonists having to work with a CIA/MI5 agent on a covert operation, or a character making mention of the government demanding compensation for having to cover for a mistake made by one of the dragon riders on a certain mission. Too many stories try to disconnect their 'fantasy underworld' from the real world completely, which destroys the point of setting it in the real world to begin with. And also, having the government already working with the dragon riders would also make things easier on the riders if/when the public catches wind of them.

    In all honesty, it would be a hell of a challenge to write, but the best of writers embrace such challenges. It makes for a more unique story, and would go a very long way in getting rid of that weird surreal feeling I tend to get when I read urban fantasy. It also doesn't only challenge you as the author, but your characters within the story itself as well, because now the stakes for them have been raised to the roof, and failure would mean utter disaster; Conflict is what keeps the readers invested in your story and your characters. Never make it so easy for your characters to accomplish their goals - and that includes your dragons. If you have to tone down their magical abilities to make this all fit, don't be afraid to do so. Make them vulnerable, make them have to work for their accomplishments. Give them flaws, make them more than perfect beings with no more room for growth and learning.
     
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  2. Ritrezer

    Ritrezer Member

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    I've got to admit, that's some of the best piece of advice I've got in a while- by a long shot. Thanks for taking out time to read through and type all that. I appreciate it. I've heard of Naomi Novik's series in Brandon Sanderson's lectures- but I have yet to read them. Again, Thanks! :D
     
  3. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I'm sorry, but none of that is believable. And the "Riders have more advanced technology so they can do whatever they want" is a very, very bad plot device/excuse to make something work. Where and how did they get this super advance technology that even the NSA doesn't have? Batman used the excuse that Bruce Wayne's a millionaire and thus has people inventing and researching stuff for him, fair enough, but that still doesn't go as far as saying "Even NASA can't detect me!", Are all Riders super rich that they could invest in the research of this technology, and then the money to acquire it?

    The Disposal team handles things when people see what they shouldn't - what, they kill them? You say they warp their memories - how're you ever gonna even find out, let alone locate, how many people and specifically WHO saw a Rider at any given moment? You're in the sky - thousands could have seen you across the area.

    Simply saying, "Who's gonna believe you when you say you saw a dragon/flying human?" isn't good enough. If such rumors exist then you'll need to account for these rumors and niche groups who would indeed believe.

    And telling me people "just forget" what they saw - when it's something as spectacular as a FLYING HUMAN - yeah I don't buy that. You don't "just forget" that. Unless they forget because the Disposal team warped their memory, but then it all goes back to the "How do they know who saw the Riders and make sure they get all of them?" as well as "Where and how did they get the tech and how could they afford it?"

    None of that deals with how military radars and satellites haven't detected invisible presences in the form of movement and heat, and it also doesn't deal with why there're no unexplained plane crashes (and why crashes don't happen more often).

    EDIT: Just read the above poster's advice - making the Riders work with the government in the background would resolve a number of your problems I believe, and a very interesting idea too.
     
  4. Ritrezer

    Ritrezer Member

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    First of all, THANK YOU for reading all the way and taking out time to type all that. I really appreciate it. :)

    As you pointed out- there were issues. After reading the earlier post, I myself found these to be some serious issues, so I began working on them. Now, time to for answers. :p

    Well, the Riders have such technology because certain dragons come from a Highly advanced world. And the knowledge of the first dragons that stepped into our world has been passed down, and it has been put to use. And then Dragons are much more skilled and talented with technology than us- a couple of High IQ genius dragons have revolutionized many things among Riders. If a brilliant scientist like Einstein hadn't found the things that he did, we would have found them, but a lot later. So, one brilliant person can alter a whole lot of things and result in advancement much faster. Thus, the riders go to possess such level of Technology. Plus, it is science fiction- If everything is completely realistic, where is "the fiction" part? So I don't think I need to explain things a lot.

    Possessing such level of technology, they occasionally sell some high-end good through some Company. Riders are one single organisation, with their magic they are capable of making certain things- so they put their talents to use to make highly successful business chains etc. If S.H.I.E.L.D can possess super-high end technology and not even NASA can't detect and track them- I think it's not too much of a stretch with my Riders.

    Now, the Disposal team things. I have changed a few things. I have decided that as soon as the Rider touches the Dragon he/she turns invisible- thank you for that one. So there can't be FLYING HUMANS in the sky anymore. :D So, all such incidents of people seeing you fly in the sky are no more. Disposal squad can't warp memories- that is scraped too. They simply clean up and get out. They're experts. Anyone who saw anything would probably be considered insane/nuts/crazy or a huge liar. None would believe them. But yes, I do have a lot of conspiracy organisations, etc. And the chance of Dragons and their world being revealed being quite high is something I now believe extremely good for the story, since it adds a lot for conflict and anticipation. Not to forget tension.

    And the forgetting part was actually using Magic, don't forget magic is a primal element of my story, not just Sci-Fi. I'm not gonna use some Neuralizer to blow off memory. And anyway, the memory idea is off. There will be no-memory related things.

    Riders have been among us, in all our structures for ages. They're in there- CIA, FBI, MI6- everywhere. And the agents in there, help keep the Riders in secret. And not to mention, the riders have advanced Stealth technology. Again, If shield's base can be unseen in the sky and undetected, why can't others? Many books such as the H.I.V.E series make use of this. Rider's pods have advanced scanners which can detect planes and also have all scheduled planes courses coming to them, so the pod automatically is programmed to create the best projected courses with no crashes etc.

    Well, Riders are among the government. And the inside support and help keep things running smooth. And yes, the working with government is an excellent idea, one I think I shall use in the later books. But certainly not in the 1st or 2nd. :D

    Once again, really Thank you for taking out time to go this far and type all that. :)
     
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  5. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Okay I think this sounds a LOT better :D and your dragons sound pretty cool. Are any of your characters dragons? Because it sounds like that'd be really cool.

    I confess, I haven't a clue what SHIELD is. Never heard of them. Oops.

    I only have one last niggle now - so you say it's a good thing that the dragons stand a very high chance of being discovered. That's fine. You also say the dragons have been around for centuries.

    So, if the chances of being discovered is as high as it seems, how on earth did they go undetected for centuries? (I guess that depends on how the dragons eventually do get discovered, which would impact upon whether it's realistic the discovery wasn't made sooner)

    What's your story even about btw?
     
  6. Ritrezer

    Ritrezer Member

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    Haha, I'm glad you like it better now.

    S.H.I.E.L.D is a secret government organization in the Marvel universe, you'll know them well if you've seen any of their movies/TV shows or read the comics anyway- i know due to the movies and TV shows. :p

    I have dragon characters, as each rider has a dragon partner and all of them can talk- they are characters and I treat them just the way I treat my human ones- it's a whole lot of fun! :D

    Well, they can't be seen by the ordinary people- as a spell was cast to prevent them from doing so and to also to avert mutual harm. So their weapons can't hurt the riders and the magical side and our powers etc can't hurt them. So being invisible- Dragons managed.
    Btw- there are some ordinary people who are exceptions to the spell and can see through it.

    Story?- I'm glad you asked. The hero and his family have been hunted for ages. He is the last of his house, now with a choice to hide or become a Rider- he chooses the latter. The story is primarily about the Ancient traitorous Ex-rider enemy that their Founder once defeated and seemingly killed but is still alive. His rise to power, and the struggle and journey to beat him. Though this is the most briefest and simplest way I can describe the story, it has a WHOLE LOT more to it.
     
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  7. Domino355

    Domino355 Senior Member

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    I think dragons in the modern world would have a very distinct weakness. Having no opposable thumbs, and probably their reliance on magic would mean they haven't developed any technology at all. The way I see it, in an aerial battle between an F16 and a dragon the plane would kick the dragon's but. I mean compare fire breathing to missile shooting, or engines to wings, and you have no match. That may be why dragon will rely on invisibility, shape shifting and magic in the first place, because without that the will have no chance. And that could be why dragons teamed up with the riders in the first place
     

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