Emotional about your characters?

See, now I identify with that, too, because I'm not the type to fall in love with anyone either in real life. I don't thinm I fall in love with my characters, or necessarily feel the live that "exists" between them, but when something bad happens to them, I empathise with their situation.

The characters I'm writing about, have been "with me" for years, so I "know" them better. If I wrote involving new characters, I might not be as emotionally involved . . . I don't know.

 

But not even a mild hint? Just nothing?

How can you write about characters loving each other if you have not even the mildlest sense of them or how they feel?

Like I said before I get not being overly emotional but none? It's like your saying that Amazon's Alexa wrote a book by anaylizing other books. I find the notion a tad bit troubling.

 

Again, I feel things are getting confused.... I care about my characters and I am hardly close to being "burnt out", In fact I am doing even more now than I was doing before and using same characters in alternate stories (just as personal side stories for myself) .

This thread is truly becoming an exercise in futility with territorial egotism, to the point that even I feel it. Look Genre matters, I am not writing erotica or sex novels, I write Fantasy-Sci Fi adventure (Well at least I think it's adventure) . Perhaps POV matters as well, I write 3rd person.

 

Agreed. More than that, there's an element of external locus of control in play. People can certainly arrive at the same goal through different paths and the fact that another path exists doesn't invalidate the path one has chosen to take, nor should one look to assimilating others on other paths in order to feel validated about one's own.

 

Well, I know how they feel; I just don't feel it myself. If were reading my book I hope I'd care about the characters, but when I'm writing it? My brain is saying "that sentence was really long, your antecedent isn't clear here, is this moving along fast enough, I think you just repeated yourself again, are readers going to think it's inconsistent that he wants to fight now when he didn't want to fight four scenes ago, have I shown that progression clearly enough, will they be able to remember who Denis even is, etc." Not a lot of room for "this is really sad," or "wow, he's really lovely."

 

Yup, not going to lie, I think this thread is making me a bit bitter at the notion that I am some weirdo or burn out for carrying about my characters and only the callous ones succeed or that they are better than me because I care and they don't. Maybe time to unwatch this thread before it goes into Nova Toxicity. O

 

Yeah, as always, if a thread doesn't work for you, it's a good idea to drop out. Doesn't mean other people can't keep discussing something.


I'm really not seeing a lot of toxicity. If you are, though - escape!

 

I feel like perhaps it isn't so much we disagree, but are having trouble on terms.

It reminds me of acting, since ya used that. How sometimes people pretend to love each other can actually begin to feel for each other off screen. Not saying thats a good thing or even a good reason to base a relationship. A disconnect is needed. If every writer completely sympathized with the villian during the days of writing him, that would be weird. And not exactly healthy.

When you say you know how they feel. How can you not also feel it. Isn't that what it means to know what someone feels? That you have some base of comparison? That a little tick hits ya. Even if it is mild. I mean, I hope I am not being too presumuptious by isn't that tick part of why you began writing? And to some degree must it still be with you?

If its just a "clock in clock out" surely there are better ways to earn a living. Why continue if there isn't some passion in the process. And by extention the characters.

I suppose it also reminds me of this guy I knew who said he didn't like any music, period. I always called him a liar. I also said I didn't think he understood what he actually meant. I can accept the idea he liked little music or he liked no music on the radio. Or many other claims, but no music? Like music at its core is just a collection of noises. He liked no collection of noises ever period? Nope can't believe it.

 

This needs to be repeated!!!! I feel something is lost and this explains it pretty well.

 

I think BayView's point is that the mechanics of writing really well: making sure it all fits, making sure the grammar works, checking spelling, continuity, phraseology, interest hooks, plot arc consistency, and so on - all end up becoming filters which keep her at arms reach from being involved as deeply with the characters as she hopes the reader will be. As she says, reading other peoples work where the superstructure of the book is hidden behind the beautiful polish, she's very much able to care about their characters.

 

Because she's good at it? Because it's not a shit desk-job answering to some pale lump of a non-person, languishing away under the unforgiving spectrum of florescent lights?

 

Funny, but nope, doesn't work like that. It's actually kind of funny to observe, because if it's someone who isn't used to being approached by random people, at first they wonder how they know the person who's just come up to them. Then they come to the realization that the person is a fan and things get a little weird. People who have successfully worked in customer service jobs tend to handle it really well, though, because it's just a different type of customer service.

 

I dunno. Its tough for me.

I get that you are so right in the "different paths" idealogy. And don't think someone is bad for having a different technique. Even if its tricky for me to understand. Just as I understand others can find my process difficult.

Just in this case. To say so boldly no feel. To me it almost makes that shit desk job sound better. I mean, when a hobby loses its passion, it becomes in a sense worse than a job. Though I suppose in Bayview case this is clearly not what has occured. Which is good! I would hate to find someone dreading life in any context.

 

Well, yeah... I mean, when I write a character being angry, I remember a time in the past when I was angry and what that felt like, maybe. (at a subconscious level). But I'm not feeling angry right then and there as a I write. I'm not saying I've never felt an emotion in my lifetime! I just--don't generally feel them when I'm writing.

As I said, when I began writing I was operating on PURE emotion, absolutely. I was working through a loss in my own life and I wrote a book about a character working through a loss in HIS life and I cried many salty tears over my keyboard on his behalf. I don't think it's a bad way to write, it's just exhausting, and if I went through that every time I wrote a book I'd be a total basketcase. Or, more likely, if I waited to feel those emotions before I could even start writing a book, I'd only have written a few books. Most novels are HIGH DRAMA; I try to keep my life LOW DRAMA. Different people may enjoy more drama in their lives and may therefore have more emotional fodder to insert in their novels. I don't know.

Meh. It's kind of an intellectual puzzle, for me. I'm intellectually engaged more than emotionally engaged. And, no, for me, there aren't better ways to earn a living. Not because I'm passionately in love with writing but because I really like the writing "lifestyle" - flexible hours, reasonable rewards for work I find interesting, not a lot of people yipping at me, etc.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Every response I've considered makes it sound like I'm offended or something, and I'm certainly not - I'm just kind of amused by the situation. I mean, if you're convinced that you have a better grasp of my emotional engagement in my writing than I do then... that's that. Like, what can I possibly say at this point? I guess you're right, and I'm just fooling myself?

 

I suppose perhaps I misunderstood. In beginning I got this feeling of like. "I don't feel about my work. Mew ha ha ha. Emotions are optional byproduct of life!" which by your current statement doesn't at feel like what you are trying to express now.

Oh and I most certainly agree. If you are only emotional. I don't see how you would ever get the logical parts done. I so see writing like that puzzle too. Admittedly I am not that great at that part yet.

I guess I am saying to me its a balance that always tilts a bit based on the moment. Planning a story is usually very emotional for me because I am thinking of the emotions I want to employ. I am thinking about the emotions I want the character to feel, the audience. And its an emotional expierence. But no I am also not banging my head against the wall because a character is frustrated.

Heck, I only ever cried twice. Sounds like you cried way more than me. lol. It just strikes me as off still I suppose. Emotions are like apart of everything. I don't see the reason not to embrace them more. But, different strokes for different folks. lol.

Sorry if I cam off too abrasive lol. I am passionate in a lot of my words. Which tends to be why I typo so much(yep, a fact many of my friends won't let me live down! lol)

 

Not having empathy for fictional characters is not the same thing as not having passion for writing fiction, right?

This is like saying that if someone doesn't create outlines and character sheets, they must dislike writing fiction. A different process isn't worse or better than another.

 

Agreed. My passion may be getting the best of me over my logic. It just seems like if you were to be passionate about creating a story, that passion would somehow reach some of those characters to some degree. Even if it was mild, I could get that. To create something so involed and time consuming and to say you care about it but not about the actual content. It just it still puzzles me.

 

As I've said numerous times, I care deeply about writing fiction. I care about my stories. I care about making them as good as they can possibly be, as emotionally taut as they can be. I do care about the content. I care what is in my story. I care what it says about the world.

I just don't have empathy for my characters as if they were real people. They are representations of real people.

 

What about, like, scientists at NASA? They must be passionate about their work in order to have achieved at the level at which they're achieving, but I sincerely hope they aren't anthropomorphizing the numbers in their equations! (They didn't CRY when seven ate nine...)

 

Okay, I have a question.

Say someone stubs their toe. You know that person is in pain, right? But you don't literally feel the pain. You recognize they're in pain; you feel bad for them. But you don't literally feel pain.

right?

I mean, I'm right there with you. I also get deeply, emotionally attached to my characters. But if Bayview, Linz, and John-Wayne say they don't, okay. I believe them. Maybe that's just how they work. It's not "troubling." It's not "off." It doesn't mean they're lying or misunderstanding. They probably understand their own emotions better than I understand their emotions.

 

I think it largely depends on the writer's working method. Some writers work on nailing the vibe of the emotion first and then go back for a second and third and fourth pass to nail down the exact words within those sentences, clear out the repetition, clean up the grammar, etc. .

Sometimes there isn't really a hell of a lot of "thinking" during my first pass, and it is mostly about the feeling of the scene, and sort of just blocking it out with a loose sentence structure as it flows. That's especially true when I'm writing dialogue. There's a hell of a lot of repetition of words in my first draft of dialogue, because for me, dialogue usually comes really, really fast, and I'm just trying to type fast enough to keep up. Obviously the dialogue is coming from somewhere in my brain, but it never feels like it at first. The hardcore, active "thinking" part of it, where all the stuff you mention above comes in, is on the second pass, and every subsequent pass after that. That's when I'm thinking things like, "How many fucking times has Alexei sighed in this scene???" On that pass, I don't feel it as much.

Others have to get the sentence structure down first and go back to inject emotion into it. Others have a combination. I think it just depends on the writer's method, and what parts of their brain need to engage for each task.


edited for wonky commas

 

I am trying to figure out your phrasing because I don't think we are really disagreeing either. I mean, its not like I am gonna get on some sort of "no, kill them, but don't hurt my character!" reaction in real life. I know my character isn't real. Like you said, you care about the content. Aren't the characters part of the content?

It just feels like their is this gut reaction to avoid admitting one cares about something. Which is part of what I am having trouble with.

Oh yeah. I did say I agree that no one is wrong for having a different style. I am a plotter at heart. I don't understand pansers in their style but I adknowledge it.

This strikes at a more core issue for me though. Take your anology. Sure, I don't feel pain because someone else I saw got hurt is hurt. But I feel something! And the closer I am to them the more I feel. If it is a random stranger, the sensation is different than if it is my lover. And the sensation is different if it was my child. A book is a passion project that takes such a long time to do even poorly. And to say that all that time and investment and nothing? If the character was butchered but hey you got a paycheck for that movie adaption that failed. So its all good?

And if you are saying this does or would bother you. Isn't that emotion and a sense of feeling!? lol

Sorry as stated before my passion may be getting the best of me. But thats just me.

 

I think it's interesting that ya'll say this. Because, like, I 100% do. I "fall in love" with every protagonist I've ever created. Maybe it's a little narcissistic of me.

It's so interesting how different people work. I'm the exact opposite. I prefer my own characters because I know them on such a deep level.

 

Thats a great example! lol

I mean. I am not saying you need to pretend your characters are real. I certainly hope NASA scientists aren't crying over seeing 7 near 9. But going with that train of thought. You can't say "I am passionate about my work but not emotionally invested." Passion is being emotionally invested! lol

Like if you are passionate about creating a book wouldn't some of that passion be on the character? Just as a byproduct to what you are doing!?