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  1. MilatheRose

    MilatheRose New Member

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    Ending them rightly, the art of stage combat

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by MilatheRose, Dec 8, 2017.

    I am some what split on this issue. How much detail should be in a duel, and should I make them longer. I'm sure anyone who has done weapon martial arts knows that duels are taking a stance, feeling each other out, followed by like, ten to twenty seconds of actual fighting maximum. Is this suitable for books I wonder, for a fight to be so brief, and how much detail should be included I wonder. Opinions?
     
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  2. TWErvin2

    TWErvin2 Contributor Contributor

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    Check out novels that you enjoyed reading that have combats in them that are similar to the ones you envision writing.

    Consider the Point of View and purpose, in addition to length, detail, wording, sentence/paragraph structures and length. Those would be the best examples to help determine the direction you should take.

    Study those examples, then apply them to your own writing style and story/action scenes.

    Some of the authors I utilize are Steven Brust, Roger Zelazny, Kevin Hearne, Laurell K. Hamilton, John Ringo and Stephen R. Donaldson.
     
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  3. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    You can make a scene drawn out and tense when the action it contains is short and to the point - two men pacing apart with pistols then turning to fire itself takes very little time, but if you describe the PoV characters senses, thoughts, and feelings the scene is much more alive than "joe killed bob in a duel"
     
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  4. PixelOwl

    PixelOwl Member

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    I think it depends on how much you want to show off? And I don't mean that you're trying to be arrogant about it or anything, just, how much do you want to try to impress the reader with your knowledge of terminology, etc.?

    Overall, I find my favourite fights are the ones that have a high emotional intensity behind them and last just long enough to show us who has more skill, or luck as the case may be. Reading duels that last six pages just because they can . . . is boring. Now, if there's a reason for it to last a long time--difficult terrain changing it up, or other people or events keep interrupting--then by all means, six pages can be really exciting.

    I think there's a careful balance. I'd like to use the Princess Bride as an example(the movie). At this point, we don't know that Inigo and the masked man are heroes--while Inigo has honour, he helped kidnap the princess, and we don't know what the masked man wants with her yet. So we're not sure who's side we're on. But both are shown to be true experts in combat, and they take their fight all around the place, and have witty banter and little surprises for their opponent sprinkled in. It's fun and it's casual, and it takes a few minutes to show it all, because they want the audience to know just how well-matched they are. It makes a point of them even declaring their different strategies to each other, so the audience is really wow'd by their techniques, even though we're not necessarily rooting for one or the other.

    Contrast that to Inigo's fight with the six-fingered man. Now there's a lot of intense emotion going into it, and we want the six-fingered man to lose. We also know he rarely gets his hands dirty, and so probably won't last long. How could that be entertaining? But as soon as he sees Inigo's expert swordsmanship, he runs away. In a fair fight, Inigo would take care of him in 5 seconds, not 5 minutes. But they show it's not a fair fight at all; as soon as Inigo gets through the doorway, the six-fingered man cheats and throws a knife into his gut. Still, Inigo fights on, and it's not exactly a duel--but after seeing him cheat like that, we're so emotionally invested in seeing the six-fingered man taken down that we don't care. It's still one of the best parts of the movie, and there's no fancy showmanship this time.

    Two totally different scenes, both treasured by the audience. One is technical and flashy, but entertaining, and the other is a quick few stabs, but with enough motivation behind it to be memorable. (And I'm not saying you need humour to make it entertaining, either, that's just the case in this example).

    EDIT: Moose has a point as well. A writer can make a 10-20 second duel last for a few sentences, or a whole chapter. It depends on how "slowed down" you want to get. The little details often make a world of difference in a duel, so showing them can be simple or complex, wordy or concise. It's entirely up to how you want it to feel to the reader.
     
  5. MilatheRose

    MilatheRose New Member

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    Right. That is a good example. Thank you. That might be a better way to go. The only book I have read that features duels prominantly was Suruga-jō Gozen Jiai. The duels where amazing, but most of the detail was about the environment. The stance they began in, and some flash backs on occasion. The actual duels themselves only lasted like, a moment. Everything was just build up and stage dressing.

    I was mostly curious if this method was too stylized for a book which would heavily feature the activity.
     
  6. PixelOwl

    PixelOwl Member

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    I think it depends on the feel you're going for, but I for one would be all over a more stylized duel. Plain action can be boring to read about(he parried her, she stabbed again, he dodged, then tried to slash at her...) so setting the stage properly would definitely spruce things up a lot. And from the sounds of it, you enjoy it that way as well! I wholeheartedly believe you should write what you'd be most interested in reading, yourself. After all, a reader will be more into a new style that the author's clearly passionate about, than a style the author doesn't enjoy and is only writing to appeal to a general audience.
     
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  7. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    In a traditional duel, yes. In hand to hand, you want to make it less than a minute (or around a minute).
    Multiple opponents take longer, as there is more chance of getting struck, and/or losing.

    Stick to technical points to keep it as authentic as possible, or it will be hard to believe. :)
     
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  8. Night Herald

    Night Herald The Fool Contributor

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    Just make sure the pommel comes off, and is reasonably aerodynamic.
    Sorry, I had to... Pay me no mind.
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    "I first produced my pistol, then produced my rapier
    I said "stand and deliver" or the devil he may take yer"
     
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  10. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    :superlaugh:
     
  11. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Welcome to the site!
    The big thing that reviews of Netflix's Daredevil taught me is that every fight scene is a conversation between the characters:
    • Why does this character do this action instead of that, when another character would've done that instead?
    • Why does this character notice this detail instead of that, when another character would've noticed that instead?
    • What goal is this character fighting about, and how is the fight drawing her closer to or further away from her goal?
     
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  12. MilatheRose

    MilatheRose New Member

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    This is useful, thank you. And to the rest, who said you could have fun here. This is a no fun zone. What kind of mickey mouse outfit do you think I'm running.
     

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