Feeling sad for the world today

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Lea`Brooks, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    It's a free market economy. The people that don't want to pray before their meal and care about not getting the discount can eat somewhere else.
     
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  2. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Where did I say it was OK?
    Notice I didn't say, the letter shouldn't have been written.

    The Civil Rights Act is a good law. There's nothing wrong with the law. Had the restaurant owner wanted a legal battle she might have argued the 'or just meditation' intent, but given the receipt said, "for praying in public" she'd have likely lost.

    I'm not arguing the law is wrong. I'm saying this lady made the same mistake some people make when saying, "God bless you" without realizing it is offensive to some people with different beliefs. It was a mistake. When she found out she corrected it.

    And the wording of the warning letter from the FFRF might have been written so that it achieved the same purpose but perhaps generated less negative PR for atheists which it no doubt has done/will do.
     
  3. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Even Rand Paul is walking this extremist Libertarian position back.
     
  4. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I could care less what he is doing. I hate the guy's guts for some of the positions he is taking, and I have to put up with him down here in Kentucky.

    Put is, they are an independently owned business. If enough people don't like what they are doing then business will decline and they will either have to shut down or get rid of their policy. If they can stay open and they get enough business with their policy and they are happy with it, then so be it. You or others that don't agree can go eat at McDonalds, Wendys, Hardees, Burger King, Carl's Jr., Huddle House, Waffle House, Olive Garden, In and Out Burger, Red Lobster, TGI Fridays, Applebees, Dominoes, Pizza Hut, Papa Johns, Little Caesars, or any other large chain or mom and pop restaurant.
     
  5. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    But, but, but....it's not faaaaiiiiirrrrrrr
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Civil Rights Act. Been around a while. Disagrees.
     
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  7. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    How are someone's rights being effected? They aren't refusing service. They are just offering a discount. They aren't telling people they have to pray to their God. You could pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster if you want. Just that you pray.

    By your feelings, does that mean we should get rid of discounts for bringing a canned good somewhere? What if I'm against canned preserved foods, or feeding the homeless? I'm not by either account, but if I were wouldn't that be against my beliefs?

    The only thing this has to do with Civil Rights, is that you have a right not to eat there and pay more than someone that prays. :)
     
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  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    This ^.

    From the FFRF's lawyer:
     
  9. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I've thought about this for a few days now, and I have to side with the owner on this. First, it seems like her intentions weren't to discriminate or anything like that. It was just her way of being nice I suppose. Second, it's not a policy that's enforced; it's simply a "gift," and the discount isn't specifically tied to Christianity or any particular religion. Third, to me, it's sort of like giving discounts to members of the military and senior citizens.

    If it really bothers you, 1) don't eat there or 2) pretend to pray and [maybe] get a discount.
     
  10. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I liked this part of your post but not the last part. ;)

    I think what's in the law is the bottom line. It's the only way to makes these things consistent.

    But ethically, I agree with you that lots of discounts are similar. On the other hand, if it was inconsistently applied, I doubt anyone who didn't say "thank the Lord" or "Bless this food" was granted the discount.

    But the law must deal with senior citizen and other discounts differently.
     
  11. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Actually, one could also say that those not praying were not "paying more" - they were paying the regular price. Or that those praying just didn't pay the tip.

    As for the FFRF's interpretation, they aren't the courts. Lawyers disagree on the law all the time. So their particular interpretation = meh.
     
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  12. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I believe I alluded to that fact, @shadowwalker, saying if the restaurant owner wanted to fight it, she might have a case. But the wording on the receipt was incriminating the way it was worded.

    You are welcome to find a source that interprets restaurant discounts for religious beliefs in the Civil Rights Act differently, I didn't go directly to the Act and I am open to learning it doesn't apply here if that is true.
     
  13. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Whose financing the discount though?
     
  14. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    What if, instead of giving a discount to those who pray, they charged an extra 15% to those who don't?

    What if the discount was only for people who attend the same church as the restaurant owner?

    At what point does this kind of thing become offensive discrimination? Not just illegal discrimination, but offensive discrimination?
     
  15. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    It does, but it's not clear enough for me. Age and educational status aren't protected groups under the Civil Rights Act, so if I charged senior citizens more than other age groups, that should theoretically be OK. Of course, people would raise hell if I did this. So the Civil Rights Act needs to be revisited from time to time to clarify certain things or make amendments. For example, a few decades after the Civil Rights Act was passed, it was extended to senior citizens and the disabled.

    God.

    You have to look at it on a case-by-case basis (that's why we have court cases). One of the things I look at is intent, and in this case it seems to me like the owner had no intention of discriminating.
     
  16. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Quick question to all,

    If you saw the restaurant owner was giving 35% discount to all diners who said a Christian prayer (if you are a Christian, change the prayer to a different religion) would you do it too?
     
  17. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Actually I wouldn't. There are some things I can't bring myself to do. Buy Cigarettes for someone. Take money out of a wallet/purse I found. Give false praise or show false interest about something I really didn't like (I prefer to skirt the issue than give negative feedback if needed, but I'll never ever be able to say something is good when it isn't.) and of course, pray. I can't bring myself to fake pray no matter what, because it's so false and insincere. I wouldn't do it if it meant I got a free meal.
     
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  18. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    Adding to what makes me sad today: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/us/police-say-mike-brown-was-killed-after-struggle-for-gun.html?_r=0

    Long story short, an 18 year old African American boy named Michael Brown was shot multiple times in the street. Several people (though whether they were witnesses or not, I'm not sure) claim that Michael was shot while standing in the street with his hands in the air. According to the police, there was a struggle over an officers gun, resulting in the shooting. I still don't know the whole story, so I'm refraining judgment for now (which I think everyone else should be doing as well).

    I lived my entire life (up until the beginning of this year) a half hour away from where this took place. And the reports that I'm getting from my friends who still live there of what is taking place there tonight are both unsettling and heartbreaking.

    It started off as a quiet protest, with people remembering Michael and begging justice for his (unwarranted) death. But somehow it turned violent. Shots have been fired. Police cars and news vans have been damaged. Businesses are being looted. Buildings have been damaged and set on fire, but the riot is so thick (in the thousands) that fire trucks are unable to reach the buildings. So they're just burning..

    It's such an unnecessary display.. The whole story is still unclear, and it's truly sad to see so many people so angry when they don't know all the facts yet. Even if Michael truly was standing in the streets unarmed when he was killed, hurting people and damaging property is not the way to fix anything..

    I'm -cough- praying for the safety of all involved tonight.
     
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  19. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    For 35%, sure. For 15%, it would depend on the cost of the meal. If the tab was $10, it's not worth a buck fifty to waste my time.
     
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  20. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    No. I'm not letting someone pay me to either disrespect myself, or disrespect the religion that I'd be playacting at.
     
  21. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'd guess that the owner may be one of those very sheltered people who doesn't truly realize that people exist who aren't Christians. Oh, sure, she may know in the abstract that there are other continents in the world with other religions, and I'd bet that if those people came into her restaurant, she'd welcome them and she'd expect them to bow their heads and pray just like her brand of Christians, because she wouldn't realize that there are other religious ways.

    And the idea that there are people who don't have a religion at all, but who are still human beings with heads and arms and legs and language and thought, people that she might meet on the street, may well be something that hasn't crossed her mind.

    But ignorance is no excuse for discrimination. She may have meant well. Now she knows what she didn't know before. So now it's time for the discrimination to stop--and apparently it has, so that's a good outcome.
     
  22. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I'm impressed. That's very logical, Ginger ;)
     
  23. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    For 35 %, sure, if the food was to my liking (if it's just fries and chicken nuggets, then nah). I would just pray to the Pink Unicorn or Jimi Hendrix. If you can pray to anything or anyone you want (how would they know? will they stand next to you and listen?), it'd be like one of those discounts you get in coffee shops if you smile or say 'please.' I mean, it's not very cool towards people whose face is paralyzed or botoxed to a lifeless mask, or for mutes, but we still allow such places to do business. At least for anybody who isn't braindead, praying or pretending to pray should be possible.
     
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  24. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Personally, I would've thought 'Oh, cute. Now where's my food?'

    It wasn't like she was saying 'I won't feed you unless you pray!' She was saying 'if you pray, I'll give you a discount'. Is it unfair? Sure, but it wasn't like she was denying them food. Besides, how long would it take me to bow my head and mutter a prayer? 'Dear Eternal Creator, please make sure my food doesn't suck, amen.' Three-four seconds? So long as I wasn't nagged to pray to a specific god, or pray period, I couldn't care less if they had that option avaliable.

    Question, though: was she only giving a discount to Christians, or are we only thinking this because the person who brought this to our attention was a Christian?
     
  25. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    For 35% not only would I pray but I would quote Bible verses and sing Christian hymns as well.
     
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