Feminism and characters gender

First, have to agree with someone else in here:

Second: I don't think you have to assume your characters are poorly written. Your beta reader might just know how the current social climate is and therefore picked out those things specifically that touch on social progressiveness. It's up to you whether you think your story would be better with changing those things.

Or... They could have been saying the characters lack of variety made it a little flat.

I don't know, haven't read it. You could talk to the reader for more clarity or get more readers to see if they come to the same conclusions.

Also, start toughening up. It only gets more brutal as more eyes are on your work. Authors take a beating!

 

If you take nothing else away from all these posts, I would ask you to stop chasing fads. Every -ism from political/social/religious sources change every five to ten years and age like clothes and hairstyles. You could write the most progressive feminist characters today and they will probably be looked at as backward and misogynistic tomorrow--not on any fault of your own, but because what is perceived as feminist has moved on. The most enduring literature, in my opinion, will always be full of characters that speak to the human emotion; their struggles, failings, and successes.

The other thing I will caution you against is pandering because it is off putting to people who don't agree politically/socially/religiously with the topic and equally repulsive to people who are of that persuasion. Do not go, "oh, by the way my character is feminist" and then carry on with the story. If you are going to include any -ism or or social hot topic, make sure that it is going to play some part in your story. Remember that for some people it is their life story, not a throw away plot device and it is hurtful when it is used that way.

And as @marshipan said, toughen up. You will take a drubbing from some corner no matter how hard you try.

 

Remember to take into account how the world reacts to these characters that break the norm. Your burly male adventurer won't touch a drop of alcohol? Make the other characters take note of that, maybe even have them theorize why he won't drink. That young lady with meticulously applied makeup just can't resist getting the front row to every street brawl in town? Have your characters talk about how her appearance doesn't match her personality, and expand on that.

Characters that break the norm are often given a few sentences per location to show that they're out of the ordinary, or that they aren't like the others around them. This is kind of detaching, really, because the world takes notice when something new and unexpected shows up. People don't have their curiosities sated by a few glances and a one-liner. If your characters aren't ordinary, make sure that the world around them makes the character feel it, and expand on whatever comes from that.

 

I so agree with all you've said here, @Kallisto . But especially about letting your characters develop organically.

While I'm not getting at people who like to work from outlines, the problem with outlines is they CAN be so rigidly adhered-to that the characters end up fitting uncomfortably into the original plot.

I've seen many a 'plotter' (as opposed to a 'pantser') being sniffy at the thought that characters can take over a story, or have a mind of their own and don't want to do what the writer wants them to do. Yes, of course, the writer can grab hold of the original plot and force the characters to march to the tune that was originally set. But by being rigid about this, a writer can be discarding the best tool in their box ...which is their own insight and instinct.

All of the characters in my novel—and I mean ALL of them—ended up behaving differently from my first conception of them. Not to the extent that the story was derailed, but to the extent that their behaviour and reasons for their behaviour made more sense, and the story was richer for it. Don't be afraid of this happening. Yes, you may end up changing your outline—even the story's outcome— but your story will probably be more believable and memorable for these changes. Your characters will ring true, rather than seeming like stereotypes.

I'm wondering if the OP @Than_urb 's beta was reacting to what read like stereotyping, rather than reacting to the actual notion of a man being adventurous, and a woman being caring, etc.

We all know adventurous men. Many have wives who seem to simply be reactive rather than proactive. That's not a stereotype, if it's written honestly, and each character gets a full personality treatment.

Maybe delve into what makes that man adventurous. Has he been encouraged not to be passive? Does he believe that he's fulfilling the role that's expected of his gender? Has he ever had to care for somebody else's needs, or even take care of his own basic needs? Or has somebody else always been providing the boring 'caring' necessities for him, while he swans around having fun? Is he frightened of becoming stale, if he doesn't stay 'out there.' Is he thoughtful, or thoughtless? Is he confident, or just faking it? Is he competitive, or fearful of competition? Does he believe the best defense is a good offence? Do the people who know him well think he's a great guy? Or are some of them less enthusiastic about his behaviour and its effect on his wife.

And is the woman resentful of her role? Does she feel 'stuck?' Maybe taken for granted? Or did she always envision herself as becoming this kind of helpmate in a marriage? How do other people see her? Is there a gap between what she would like her life to contain, and what it actually contains? Is there anything she can realistically do to change that balance? Has she got friends who are not in this kind of marital situation? What does she think of them? Is she envious, or does she think they're not behaving the way they should? Maybe not supporting their husband the way she does hers? Has anybody ever tried to talk her into doing more of what she would be doing if she wasn't married? Has she married a man just like her dad? Or maybe one very unlike her dad? Is she maybe unsure of herself, or unwilling to take the lead? Why?

I'm related to a woman whose husband once said to me, "I wish she'd decide what we should do on holiday, or where we should eat out, and so forth. Even once in a while. But she won't. She always says it's up to me. That can get a bit annoying. I always have to come up with the agenda, or nothing happens."

As a writer, this kind of role exploration can reveal lots of different depths and permutations within your characters. If you explore these depths honestly, and treat each character like a separate human being, rather than as a stereotype—even if their behaviour actually FITS a stereotype—then you should be fine.

 

I would suggest that you write what you are comfortable with and to know your target audience. Your type of stories are fine if you focus on your target audience however if you are specifically marketing to minority and historically underrepresented group like women, lgbt or people or colour you have to do your research.

For example, as a gay black man there is no way I'd watch a movie like "Stonewall" because it's offensive however I do enjoy James Bond and other stereotypically alpha male movies. After all, alpha male stories sell very well and lots of women readers are into these type of stories as well.

The reality however is that many women nowadays juggle a career and family and many are putting off getting married or having children to a later age. A younger female audience (millenial and Gen Z) audience might not relate to your characters. Women don't depend on men to fulfill all their needs anymore. However, if they are not your target audience it might not matter.

You don't even have to read up on feminism and those type of stuff but just take a look at the normal everyday women who surround you in life. What are their dreams, hopes and desires? Have a conversation with them and see what they have to say.

 

Personalities are interchangeable between genders but something to take note of is that women are brought up to be more cautious than men. So if your characters are drinking in a public space she's likely to not put down her drink, or cover it with something if she has to let it leave her sight say to go to the bathroom, when she returns she might not drink from it again and just order another one, if she ever loses sight of her drink or food in a public place for more than 30 seconds to a minute she most likely won't touch it again.

If there's a strange noise in a dark alley she's extremely likely to not investigate it if she's on her own unless she's a super OP warrior chick but even then she will take every precaution to make it safer for her. Lighting up the space if she can, drawing weapons and she will be on high alert. If she's a civilian then there's no way she's investigating that suspicious noise in the dark alley, even if she's with a group of friends that are exclusively girls or if boys are the minority in the group.

The simple reason for this is that women are in more danger in day to day life, are more likely to be targeted because on average they are smaller and weaker than men and are taught from childhood to be aware of their surroundings and the people around them.

 

Reading up on feminism will help you understand women in history and women in relation to the world, but it won't help you figure out women as individuals. I feel both are important, though, to create well-rounded characters. People's behaviour is a combination of their personality and inner world, and their surroundings in the outer world. A good source of conflict for the story can be when the inner and outer worlds collide, be it a female pirate captain or a male nanny.

Of course you don't always want that kind of conflict, so it's okay to have pirate captains and nannies that are just accepted as they are. In these cases, it may help to write a male character and then just change the name for a female, and check if you feel differently about the character.

In other cases, you may want to focus on issues that are specific to women and tell stories where being a woman in the world has inherent meaning. Personally, as a woman, I like to see stories where there are different kinds of female characters. Some defy expectations and it's no big deal, others face obstacles from their surroundings and crumble, some again are happy with the way things are, or even end up enforcing the rules for others. All of them should have rich, vivid inner lives, parts of which are influenced by being a woman and other parts that are not.

There's a problem only if it feels like there's no understanding in the writing of either women as people or of women as members of their society, and all the female characters behave in much the same way and follow the same rules. However, as long as you remember that there is no answer to the question "what do women want" because women are not a hive mind, you'll probably be okay just by treating your characters as individuals.

 

So... I actually have a different take on this.

I've given advice almost identical to this before. And when I gave that advice, I did not mean:

(A) Your story needs to be more inclusive.

I actually meant:

(B) Your characters are kind of cliche and have stereotypical personalities based on their gender. It's kind of boring (I mean this very gently). Your characters might be *more* interesting if you tried giving them more human and well-rounded traits not based on their gender.

I don't know what your reader meant, because I'm not a mind reader and I've never met them. But I thought I would just point this out.

I see a ton of people here advising that you just think of the characters as people and largely ignore their gender, and I second this advice.

As for what I, personally, like in female characters: I love a tall buff lady who can pick me up and carry me. But that's just personal preference, babe.

 

To add to this:

There are, sometimes, characters who have personalities deeply rooted in their gender. Like, Elle from Legally Blonde is a great character, imo, and the whole basis of that theatre play is that she's a blond airhead sorority girl who loves pink. And I fucking love that musical.

The thing is, though-- and this is just my opinion-- the best characters are the ones that subvert expectations. (And Elle does subvert expectations, eventually, just not in that specific way.)

"The men drink and are adventurous while women are sensible and caring?" So try to think of a way to subvert that.

The men drink and are adventurous, and the women are sensible and caring... but really it's all just an act, and the women are deliberately manipulating the men into acting in dangerous ways to get them killed for insurance money. The biggest male drinker in the group is secretly dumping out his beer when no one is looking because hates being drunk-- he's just trying to be one of the guys. The gentle and caring grandma is really a gentle and caring (but extremely manipulative) villain. The gentle, feminine wife genuinely is gentle and feminine, but she's a lesbian and struggles to admit she doesn't love her husband.

Or just try straight-up swapping two of the character's genders. Make one of the adventurous "male coded" characters female, and make one of the sensible and caring "female coded" characters male. I will be honest-- Ellen Ripley from the Aliens franchise, and Andromache from the Old Guard franchise, are two of my absolute favorite characters, and they're literally just stereotypical sci-fi action heroes who have been gender-flipped into women. Stephen from the popular kid's series Stephen Universe is every "magical girl" anime trope rolled up into one, then made into a teenage boy. Changing a character's gender can subvert expectations in a way that can make old tropes feel new, or change the context of things in a super interesting way.

Anyway, good luck.

 

A lot of my work contains women who drink, swear, and fight. They fix spaceships, they tote BFGs, and they have one night stands all over the galaxy.

I also have a man in my book who complains if so much as a spot gets on his perfect new suit, or if there's a single fleck of dirt under his fingernails.

Simply put, throw societal expectations in the trash. As a woman, I hate seeing all the women in a book portrayed as meek, caring, or whatever other stereotypically feminine traits are out there. You don't have to go crazy with it, but at least if you drop in a few characters who break the mold, even if they're minor characters, it shows that you think beyond these nasty archaic ideas about gender roles (unless, of course, your book is set in such a place where they would be enforced, in which case, forget everything I just said.)