Ferguson

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Daniel, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. Garball

    Garball Banned Contributor

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    It is a Representative Republic, and as @stevesh alluded to, it represents the people who contribute to it (voting).
     
  2. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I was thinking more along the lines of an oligarchy (the rich being the "few" in this case).
     
  3. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I remember reading something by Noam Chomsky where he said America is a polyarchy offically and in theory, and an oligarchy in practice. This seems the best way to put it.
     
  4. yagr

    yagr Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, it represents those of us who don't vote as well.
     
  5. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I remember that a few months ago, a couple of political scientists published a paper arguing that the US was an oligarchy. It was a really impressive paper, too, and it got a lot of people to really think about the political system. A lot of the right-wing media outlets didn't report on this, which I find interesting.
     
  6. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Very interesting. I wonder why? :p
     
  7. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    It's officially a representative democracy. People vote into office people to represent them. I'm sorry to people from all the other countries, and even the people that are U.S. citizens and want to bash their own government, but the U.S. is the most free, safe, and all around best countries to live in, in the world. If it were only closer to the equator with cheaper land to live on near the beach, it would be perfect. :agreed:
     
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  8. yagr

    yagr Senior Member

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    Lewdog, I would not presume to hinder your right to an opinion - seriously. That said though, I hear such comments from people quite often and I always wonder how many country's they have lived in prior to making that determination. Having been to over a hundred countries and having lived in perhaps twenty, I am always stymied by this statement and wonder what criteria the people saying it are basing their beliefs on.
     
  9. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    If it's so amazing why has no other country adopted it? Pretty much every other "democracy" is a parliamentary system, with a prime minister and all that.

    Most of these were formed after the U.S., so it's interesting that no one looked at our system and said, "We'll have one of those."

    We kind of invented the idea of a constitution though, so...USA! USA!
     
  10. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    A democracy is a system where all citizens have an equal vote and equal ability to run for leadership. Electoral colleges in every way rules this out, and makes the idea of the US being a democracy an illusion perpetrated for nationalistic reasons. If you went and ran for president of the US, you would need serious corporate support and that isn't even an open secret. By yourself you don't stand a chance in hell, this shouldn't be the case in a democracy, and never happened in any of the democracies that have ever existed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
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  11. Garball

    Garball Banned Contributor

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    That's not the voters' problem.
     
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  12. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    Most free: New Zealand
    Safest: Japan
    Best: Norway
     
  13. yagr

    yagr Senior Member

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    No, it is not. I'm told that I solved that problem for them.
     
  14. stevesh

    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/214857-who-rules-america

    I think that "democracy" in this instance is just verbal shorthand for a system that, nominally, anyway, relies on elected representatives to reflect the will of the voters. I don't think you can make a rational case that the US isn't an oligarchy, but that (and the studies mentioned at the links above) are describing the federal government.

    One of the reasons we supporters of Tea Party values (more shorthand) think as we do is that our ideas would reduce the influence of the federal government on our lives and increase the relative power of state and local governments, with whom we can wield more influence. A city the size of Ferguson couldn't have a sufficiently powerful oligarchy to control the city government if the citizens were doing their parts.

    I know my state senator personally and he pays attention when I and others contact him about one issue or another. Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow? Not so much unless I have a check in my hand.
     
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  15. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Representatives is more a characteristic of a Republic than a Democracy. A Democracy is purely by the people; in fact, it's closer to what we should think of as political Anarchy (that's with a capital A).
     
  16. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I'm talking taking all factors into account, as a whole.
     
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  17. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    'Best' is purely subjective, and the US didn't invent pizza or pasta. Just saying.
     
  18. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    So were the people who wrote those articles. USA still isn't on top.

    No other country claims to be the best by the way. They just listen to our politicians declare it, make a wanking motion with their fists and share eye contact with one another.
     
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  19. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    God damn it, you beat me to the wanking jokes.
     
  20. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I really could care less what some people from other countries think. Take for example Russia who thinks we aren't as good as we think, all the while they are worried about making homosexuality and swearing against the law. I by far didn't say the U.S. was perfect, but as a whole I find it hard pressed to find a better country.

    Oddly when things like the Ferguson incident comes up, it shows the best and the worst of the country.
     
  21. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    You must be very well traveled. @yagr's lived in 20 countries and doesn't seem to think the U.S. is the best.
     
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  22. yagr

    yagr Senior Member

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    I am from the US. What about what I think? Don't I get a democratic vote? (okay, last question was a joke meant in fun not to antagonize)

    Still curious though, what criterion you are using to draw your conclusion. Experience in other countries; reports from independent sources, etc.
     
  23. yagr

    yagr Senior Member

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    To be fair, I am a member of a minority group so...

    On the other hand, prior to the seventeenth century, my people were a majority here. :)
     
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  24. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    That's like saying a fan can't have an opinion of a sports team unless they have played professionally.

    I have in fact been to a couple countries in Europe, but then again I don't need to go to certain countries to know the U.S. is safer. For example I don't have to be in Israel to know the U.S. is safer from terrorist attacks, nor do I need to be to Liberia to know the U.S. is safer for diseases.
     
  25. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    o_O Who on earth would need to go to a war zone to find out it's safer than a country with no nearby enemies? o_O
     

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