1. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,359

    Foreword or no foreword

    Discussion in 'Self-Publishing' started by SapereAude, Dec 26, 2021.

    How important is a foreword to a non-fiction book of just under 200 pages?

    I'm ready to publish -- except that the friend I asked to write a foreword (and who said he would be pleased and honored to do so) hasn't found/made the time to write it. I have dropped a couple of reminders, to no avail. I don't want to jeopardize the friendship by becoming more demanding; if he doesn't have the time, he doesn't have the time. He writes for an on-line periodical, and he's always scrambling to meet a deadline.

    I would ask someone else, but I don't have a large circle of friends (or even a large hexagon of friendly acquaintances), and few of them are even aware of my moonlight avocation as an author. I can't think of anyone else to ask, so the other option is to publish the book with no foreword.

    How terrible would that be?
     
    MartinM likes this.
  2. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,537
    Likes Received:
    25,864
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    imo forewords are only worth it when they are by someones who's an acknowledged expert in the field (Its usual to pay for them in those circumstances)...if the writer is as unknown as the author there's not a lot of point to them
     
    MartinM likes this.
  3. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    I've so rarely read even part of a foreword that I probably wouldn't bother asking someone to write one for me unless I happened to be acquainted with a renowned expert in my field who was willing to extol my own expertise and brilliance to the skies in return for a jar of my husband's best homemade salsa and a bag of tortilla chips.

    What is the book about, if you don't mind sharing?
     
  4. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    It's about a subset of the expertise I have developed over several decades in a couple of professions. Sort of expounding on shortcuts and insider info that would (IMHO) be of help to newbies entering the field.

    Sorry not to be more specific, but I make a feeble effort not to post anything on the Internet that can be easily associated with my real name. (Not that a dedicated hacker couldn't track me down within minutes from any forum, I suppose.)
     
    MartinM likes this.
  5. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    Understood, sir, and thank you for what explanation you offered.

    Yeah, you can run, but hiding is harder than it used to be. Years ago while preparing for trial, I had to locate several people who didn't want to be found. I located them all eventually, which was scary given how thin my internet skills were back then.
     
  6. evild4ve

    evild4ve Critique is stranger than fiction Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2021
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    1,145
    From other posts I think I've gathered that the OP self-publishes. So if the non-fiction topic is within an academic subject (or borders one) the foreword might be important to establish credibility. In some fields that's more complex than credible-or-not, and an introductory passage from a tenured professor with an independent perspective might be useful to guide what use later readers make of the contents. For all that nobody reads them, forewords often cover off things like translation that has taken place between languages or different countries' review procedures.

    The OP I gather doesn't want to say the subject, so I'll suggest a crude spectrum with two extremes:- at one end I'll put Astronomy (where academically-valuable material is sometimes produced outside of universities) and at the other I'll put Theology (where indescribably-vast amounts of worthless material is churned out by cults). Books in both subjects are better off with a foreword, but in Theology it's potentially distinguishing the proper books from an ocean of dangerous garbage.

    I would think that the more essential a foreword is in the OP's subject, the easier it will be to approach strangers to write one. Astronomy is taught at more universities than the history of model trains.
     
    MartinM likes this.
  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,537
    Likes Received:
    25,864
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    As i said above the normal protocol is to approach an expert in the field... and generally they want to be paid... how much depends on their degree of expertise/celebrity ie how much value they're going to add to your book

    It can also depend on the subject and how much they agree with the views they are endorsing...

    I'm currently working on a book about self publishing, when i get to the point that ive got an acceptable draft i'll probably ask Adam Croft if he'll write me a foreword... I moderate his facebok group so i know him well enough to ask, but the chances are still high that i'll need to pay him... that's business.

    If i wanted someone i don't know as well like Mark Dawson, Joanna Penn, or Hugh Howie i'd expect to have to pay more.

    However i'd do it that way rather than asking one of my fellow moderators or whoever to do me a freebie because the point of the foreword is to add crediblity... for readers to say 'hey Adam agrees with what moose is saying so he must know what he's talking about'

    a while back someone asked me to write them a foreword (also on a book on self publishing) I was honest and said that a foreword from me added little, and they'd be better off approaching Adam, Jo, mark etc... they were adamant they wanted me so i said okay I'll do it for £50...crickets... seems they wanted a freebie. their book tanked... although i suspect that had more to do with them being tight on marketing on promotion than lacking my words of wisdom.
     
  8. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    It's interesting that people who'd never dream of asking a contractor to fix their roof or paint their living room for free don't think twice about asking a writer, dancer, musician, or visual artist to contribute pro bono work to whatever enterprise requires that kind of product. Once upon a time, I was a professional dancer, and I can't tell you the number of times people offered me the privilege of performing at their shindig, then nearly fainted when I quoted my usual fees. If I heard the phrase, "It'll be great publicity" once, I heard it a thousand times. One of my current part time jobs involves historical reenactments; I'm good at it and it pays well. However, there are those who think it's a kind of playtime activity and that I should jump at every opportunity to perform, paid or not. Therein lies the problem: creative work is regarded as play by those who don't do it. One professional asking another professional for work product should certainly know better than to expect it for free.
     
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,537
    Likes Received:
    25,864
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Yep i was a wedding photographer once, i lost count of the "my fiancee's really pretty so it will be great for your portfolio' type proposals. not to mention people wanting to use pictures on websites 'for a credit'

    my landlord doesnt accept credits in lieu of cash, nor does the bank

    all of which comes back to the OP to say if you want a decent foreword make a list of well known professionals in said field...approach them with a proposal and be prepared to pay £50-£200 or the dollar equivalent.

    If you're not prepared to pay for a well known expert you may as well not bother with a foreword at all... one by someone no ones ever heard of will do more harm than good

    If you think the book needs a brief preamble to engage reader interest the other option is to write it yourself - i think technically thats a preface not a foreword but its not likely the readers care all that much
     
    MartinM likes this.
  10. MartinM

    MartinM Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    @SapereAude

    I know nothing, but this is my personal opinion for what its worth from a business view. First and foremost, you asked the friend to write a forward and he said yes. You need to tell him frankly that you need his forward. To not jeopardize the friendship, you also need to give him an OUT...

    Keep it short and direct, you need his forward by x-date. You know how busy he is and understand how hectic the work schedule is, but if you can’t make that cut-off date no problem. Just let me know I have someone else who could fill in, its not an issue, just let me know...

    Here you’ve given him an out without ruining the friendship.

    How important are forwards? Well, your next post expands on this book of yours that contains useful steps for newbies in this field. If the Forward says he knows what he’s talking about and I’m a God in this field then yes that forward is needed. Normally I only find this occurs in military or mechanical engineering books.

    Finance, (my industry) is bullshit bobble head commentors that do forwards and add no value. In fiction I’ve currently been reading the DUNE series by FRANK HERBERT. His son gives a long forward to each book. Even though I’ve no respect for him, I do like reading his thoughts on his father’s work. So, my view really is the forward must add some kind of added value, genuinely.

    Ask your friend directly, but give him an out...

    MartinM
     
  11. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    I've been blessed with several talented amateur wildlife photographers who offered me work even knowing I didn't have the budget to pay them (I used my own photographs as well as write the newsletter). When I did manage to scrape a few dollars together to pay the guy who contributes most, he informed me that he is an amateur, didn't want to be paid, and to shift the fee to one of the others. I lurve him.
     
  12. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    Y'all have led me to see the light. Since I am not in a position to pay a "name" to write a foreword -- the foreword is now past history.

    Thank you, one and all.
     
  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,537
    Likes Received:
    25,864
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Ive done that before - given work to people with no budget, that's fine. What annoys me is when you've got for example a wedding venue that charges clients 10k a pop offering me "a credit and publicity" to use my photos on their website... or even better a national tourist board with a budget last i checked of circa 300k who used one of the pictures without permission or acknowledgement and had to be threatened with court proceedings before they offered me even a credit ( i sued them and got a couple of grand)
     
  14. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    Remarkable, ain't it? I was asked to teach at a three day fiber arts workshop by friends who were just getting their artist's retreat business off the ground. To help them out, I offered my services in return for gas money and a place to sleep. They were shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you. They'd already assumed that I'd travel nine hours in one direction on my own dime to offer my services free and would rent sleeping space from them as well. I decided to decline the privilege. They wrote me off their Christmas card list.

    A costumer who specializes in medieval clothing found an overseas company using her photograph of her dress on her body as an ad for a knockoff. She ordered one then made a video critiquing the knockoff design styling and construction. Her creation: exquisite. Knock off: Walmart Halloween section, but without the class. It was a fine video.

    Sorry to hijack your thread, Mr. Aude.
     
  15. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    No need to apologize, Catriona (or is it Ms. Grace?). We all need to hear these stories from time to time. I'm especially prone to allowing myself to be "volunteered" for tasks that nobody else would even consider for less than beaucoup bux. And we're going to see more of it, I fear. There's an entire generation of up-coming YouTube "influencers" who are out there, traveling the world, hitting up A-list restaurants, hotels, and resorts trying to cadge free accommodations in exchange for "publicity."

    In fact, I've done it (to myself) again already. The assistant pastor at the church my late wife and I attended is a Latino. He's writing a book, which he wants to publish in English but he isn't fluent enough to write in English. So he asked me to translate from Spanish to English, and edit the English version while I'm at it.

    Idiot that I am, I felt sorry for him so I agreed to do it. [​IMG]

    I'm sure before it's done I'll also design the book, do the typesetting, and design the cover. I ain't tu smart.
     
  16. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    Oh, bless your heart, which is obviously much better than your ability to say, "Oh, hell, no!"

    Catriona will do. ;)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice