Honestly you can make that claim about any truth. I could assume that everyone here agrees that 5 + 5 = 10, and I don't think anyone would ask me to prove it. I'm at work so I don't have unfettered access to scientific data, but I don't really feel that the burden of proof is mine. People know that women are statistically more beautiful than men, this is an accepted fact. There is a reason women are beautiful and attractive to men and it has to do with our species and mating. The man, being the aggressor in mating need not be as physically attractive as much as he must be strong and responsible. There's no reason to believe otherwise. Perhaps a million years from now evolution will adapt to a different set of parameters but today men and women are still working within a set genetic parameter. I don't have exact figures, but my theory would be something like this: On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate the attractiveness of... The Nude Male Form Men: 3 Women: 7 The Nude Female Form Men: 9 Women: 6 This is what I feel the numbers might be, give or take a point. So the original question being, 'Why is nudity in entertainment overwhelmingly female?' The answer, in my opinion, is because both men and women would generally rather see a nude woman than a nude man. It's more appealing to a broader base of the watching audience.
It's really not. Just to clarify, this is not one of those "facts" that I've frequently heard but nevertheless disagree with, like "The man should be the master of the house," or "All morality comes from God." I disagree with those statements, but I have heard them, and I know the common arguments and sources for them, and I understand that a large population of people believe them and aren't going to be talked out of them. There's a structure around that idea. This is not one of those. It's not even something like "Decent clean people take their shoes off when they enter a home," versus "Decent clean people would never dream of walking around someone's home in their disgusting sweaty socks," two completely opposing statements that are held as absolute truths by a large population on each side. It's a statement that I haven't heard made before. By anyone. Seriously. Has anyone else? Is this a commonly-stated but debated point like the above, and I've just missed it all my life?
There is a difference between evidence and the assessment of said evidence, JJ. If I take five marbles and add five to them, no matter how many times I or anyone else counts those marbles using the base 10 number system, we are going to come up with 10 marbles. I can say with a high degree of confidence that 5+5 in base 10 = 10. If I like the taste of broccoli and you don't, I can't very well say it's a fact that broccoli tastes good. Your attempt to conflate evidence with conclusions and to subsequently dismiss all conclusions about evidence as equally tentative or subjective isn't supporting your case.
I went looking. Nothing. Found a bunch of things to the contrary that I've already posted, but hey, those are just quantified, studied items of data like the exquisite and undeniably beautiful forms carved by the Hellenistic Greeks. You know, stuff like that. And again, this study that JJ seems to have undertaken during the time this conversation started would seem to only address what people are willing to admit (emic data) without any sort of observational evidence (etic data) as a counterbalance. You know, like the ridiculously beautiful statues of men both Ginger and I have posted which are used as the holotypes for the Hellenistic period of art, which, btw, was also the the same school of art that flowered in the Renascence. But, again, silly observational data.
The great thing is that I don't need to make my case. I can choose when this ridiculous debate stops being entertaining for me and I just leave. No matter how many people you line up to agree and say men are more beautiful than women, all it does is make it easier for me to label the ignorant people.
Wait, wait. What? How many different ways are you going to skew people's statements? Not one single person here has even come close to saying that. Not one. The ignorance showing is yours. You can't even follow the conversation. So if you don't deign to participate in an open discussion where people are sharing and pondering differing viewpoints, you need only leave.
But what happens if the majority of people disagree with you? _You_ can say that women are inherently more beautiful. But when you say that the majority of people agree with you, then the opinions of people matter to that argument. (And, yes, nobody said that men are more beautiful. You created that.) Edited to add: JJ, I find myself wondering if you have _ever_ said, "Um. OK, I said that without thinking it through. Turns out I might be wrong." Because you seem to be defending an indefensible statement here, and I feel that you're defending it simply because you made the statement. You've stated that everyone (Edited to correct - sorry - the majority) believes that women are more beautiful, and then that you don't care how many people disagree with you. The majority agrees, and you don't care how many people disagree with the fact that the majority agrees. The logic doesn't parse. Sometimes it's really easier to accept that maybe you spoke too fast.
Meh, I have an RP to tend to but you all have fun. I've stated my opinion to the original post and there's no more entertainment value left. Cheers.
Ambling back to the original question, I suspect that 1) men are socialized to avoid looking at nude men and therefore 2) men are offended or repelled by such sights in movies and television and 3) media care more about what men want to see than what women want to see. and therefore 4) movies and television avoid depicting nude men. I suspect that women are less often offended, and less offended, by the sight of nude women. But even if both sexes were offended at seeing their own sex nude and delighted at seeing the opposite sex nude, the preference for catering to men's preferences would result in fewer nude men.
So, I agree with this statement in full, but there is a discrepancy that I myself brought up earlier (and that Ginger also mentioned) that I would like to explore: Why the stark difference between the U.S. media machine's treatment of the matter and the way it's handled in Europe. Our culture comes in vast part from Europe. Many European cultures are even more socially "traditional" and conservative than the U.S., and yet there is a marked difference in how European films handle male nudity than in the U.S., but not in female nudity. If anything, there's more female nudity from the U.S. What gives?
I don't know if anyone has noticed this but I'm going to state it anyway. This social experiment is being run on nearly every gender neutral face book fan page. Firstly a picture of a male usually naked buffed up slightly covered is posted. Then to my surprise or to my lack of surprise every female or the majority of posts to the picture are rampant with sexual comments. Now cunningly the operators then post a picture hours later of a female dressed in practically nothing, same scenario but reverse. Now the interesting thing is the comments from the men are less sexual and more appreciated of the "artistic" value. In fact the language is quite tame. However the females all of sudden their comments are, to put it blunt distasteful to darn right rude. Everything from "slut" to even "this is a family face book page". Now I've actually seen this tactic being run on every gender neutral page so I decided to go hog wild. I enrolled on a popular male only one called blokes world that regular posts pictures of women in skimpy outfits. The funny thing is ... well its just that. The men just made sexual jokes, bad pun about the errrr car behind her being hot etc... But that's besides the point I've noticed this attitude with women to suddenly change and rearrange at a click of a button. Now I might not tend to agree with our JJ here but the point I can see clearly. Does the extremist get a say? Cos sometimes everyone follows crowds. And some times social experiments are being done on you without your consent. But as JJ stated this was fun to him. I've actually started calling this new face book gender swapping thing REVERSE misogyny. Anyway continue!~
I just wanted to clarify one of my statements before I bow out of this thread. When I say 'fun' or 'entertaining' I simply mean that I spend my time on this forum because I enjoy having discussions with others. I was not purposefully making statements to rile people up, I clearly stated my opinions. But I learned a long time ago to know when people cross over that line between disagreeing with someone's ideas, and giving someone a hard time because of personal biases. I'm sorry if anyone thought I was 'trolling'. I was not. I just know when to fold em, and when to hold em.
I don't think you where trolling, and I do like the fact that you held onto those cards. It proved a valid point..
I've never thought of you as a troll in this thread or any other. But when the evidence against your point of view is overwhelming, you have repeatedly run away claiming we are out to personally persecute you. I feel the need to defend myself and point out that is a false accusation. Leaving a debate is fine. I recommend it to anyone who doesn't want to argue, doesn't want to take the time to support an argument, or simply doesn't want to admit they were wrong. But accusing others of not playing fair is an ad hominem style argument that is nothing less than rude. Next time you slink out or proudly walk away, I do ask you please not insult the rest of us on your way out.
Did I mention you? Do you have access to the PM's in my inbox? No, so perhaps you should think before you speak.
Well yes, actually, you did mention me specifically: This reads like you implying people who don't agree with you are not intelligent. And I have been labeled as disagreeing with every little thing you post. Both of those are false claims. While directly quoting me, you posted: It's not about personally disagreeing with you. It's about you making claims that I and several people in the thread find unsupportable. And while this "you" pertained to Wrey, the label that all who disagree with you are ignorant clearly includes your addressing me in the thread. It's time to stop insulting people, JJ. Leave the thread if you choose. Disagree all you want. But please do stop calling others stupid and claiming they only disagree with you out of spite. I can only ask, I don't have mod authority. But I am asking politely I believe.
You're right about one thing. You're not a mod. I already decided to leave this thread and it was your incessant instigation that brought me back into it. So I will leave, as I was going to do anyways, but it has nothing to do with you asking me.
I didn't ask you to leave the thread. I asked you to quit calling people who disagreed with you, ignorant, and saying they only disagreed with you for some personal reason. Because you have misread my post, here it is again: "Leave the thread if you choose. Disagree all you want. But please do stop calling others stupid and claiming they only disagree with you out of spite." And now I'll add, please stop lying about people, or at least read their posts a bit more carefully.
And here I thought general lewdness was going to be the concern in this thread. Whodathunkit? Let's try and bring it back to at least where the conversation was when it got off track.
Hey that's religious bashing in a way. I don't like vehemently bashing an others word play, the bible is a contradicting mess, I agree. Yet you must forget that the word play can be rearranged and these things can create new views. A distant math none the less yet one can dissect these simple facades and stories to prove worth. In other words uncool dude... (and seriously this conversation was way out of line to begin with... even with my little humor and take on the whole subjective nonsense)
Yep! But some places, so what, showers, locker rooms saunas. BUT THE OLD FOLKS...DAMN! They gave a bunch of grannys some moulding clay and and instructed them to make something that made them happy. Granny had her hog-leg formed on the table in no time and sat there with a smile almost as big. Damn! Grannys and penises No! No! and HELL NO! Many, many year ago...before chemical boners, old guy came in for a pair of glasses and we got to talking about women and one thing led to another. He was bragging about his implant so what the hell gramps...show us. When back in the lab, he dropped and unhooked the thing. Damn hog-leg shot out like a switch-blade. His wife was in a few minutes later. Would have settled to have just seen her smiling face without seeing his big johnson. Guess there's a few secrets to happiness that's just better left tucked in.
