Gender, power, feminism, patriarchy...

Oh, now it's human rights. I thought you were just fighting for women.

 

Women aren't human? The right to life and safety and education and employment are human rights being denied to women simply because they're women. The issue is a human rights issue, of which women's rights is a subset.

 

If humanity is what you cared about, then humanity would be the word you choose to use. You used women. Therefore elevating women higher as PeTA does animals. The idea that anyone who fights for ONE group of humans wants there to be equality across the board makes me laugh. If they really cared about all humans, they'd fight for all, not just a group.

This includes GLAAD, NAACP and the like.

 

I really can't believe you're actually serious about this. How many men do you know who were forced to abort their female babies? How many straight people commit suicide for being bullied about their sexuality? How many white people have been discriminated against for the colour of their skin? Human rights should apply to everyone, but because of institutionalised discrimination, many minorities are treated worse than their majority counterparts. Thus, we need groups to fight for the rights of these people because otherwise they wouldn't have a voice. What rights do affluent white people need to fight for? How are we being discriminated against? What injustices are committed against us? People who fight for the rights of women do so because they want to see them enjoy the same quality of life that those of us fortunate enough to be born into tolerant societies do, not because they care more about women than any other group. You can frame your apathy and lack of compassion as a political stance if that's what you need to do to justify it, but don't try to corrupt the good work and good intentions of groups fighting to grant people the same rights you so carelessly enjoy.

 

A lot. Women's choice sort of kills men's dreams of having kids. Heard about the billboard of a man that posted what he looked like holding a child his ex aborted? There's thousands like him. He had balls that this feminized society hadn't cut off just yet.

Are you saying gay suicide is the worst kind of suicide?

To me...all suicide is bad. It's terrible that anyone would find it as a solution to their life no matter who they are. The fact you belittle anyone who isn't gay that has committed suicide, disgusts me.

A lot. There are those black people who tend to be racist toward white people just because they're white. They are taught that in churches like those that go to Jeremiah Wright's Church. Victimizing them to justify the useless NAACP is ridiculous, but that is how they teach people in those classes to react, I guess.

Just to let you know (and you should know this as a writer) BUT...negates everything that you said previously. Therefore the above, doesn't much matter. It's as if you never said it when you use BUT.

You mean white people.

Which, by the way, would be a racist comment.

You mean they need to be coddled.

Not just any white people, the rich kind.

Only white people can be rich.

Wait...no, black people can be rich too, but they're labeled as Uncle Toms and haters for leaving the horrible neighborhoods that are infested with drugs that those black people choose to partake in.

Who is that for?

I'm one of the minorities. There are few people in this world that are the same mixture of me. Irish and Japanese is not something you find often. The only other person I know that's similar to my brothers and me is Darren Criss. He is one of my favorite people for more than just that.

I frame my idea of equality as everyone is to be treated equally as humans. Differences between races and sexes exist and ignoring that is just plain stupid.

And I don't talk a big game. As you show...you have not been to those countries that belittle women to fight for their rights. Making you just a Monday Morning Quarterback. You haven't been in the fray.

 

I really cannot take any more of this. I guess we're just opposite in every sense. But I find your way of thinking intensely disturbing, and I'm sorry but I consider you to be one of the people me and others like me fight against.

EDIT: Actually, no. It would be wrong of me to walk away without doing anything I could to try to show you how wrong you are.

I clearly wasn't talking about abortion in Western countries in my last post. While it's a sometimes controversial topic here, women do have the right over their bodies. I was talking about countries in Asia, Africa and the Middle East where female babies are either aborted or abandoned at birth simply because they are female rather than male. This practice is widespread and completely inhumane. It must be fought, surely on that we can agree, and the fight against it is generally framed in terms of women's rights because the victims are exclusively female and it speaks to gender discrimination in society. Women, here, clearly need someone to help them fight against social prejudices and laws in these countries that either implicitly or explicitly condone this behaviour. (For the record, I know the billboard you're talking about, and hearing about it literally made me sick. If you sympathise with that man, I don't think there's going to be much we agree on).

I don't know how you managed to twist my comment about gay suicide into whatever it is you think I said, but you should really learn to not deliberately misinterpret what I said. Obviously all suicide is bad, but the fact is that gay children have been driven to suicide simply because of their sexuality. I'm not saying their suicides are worse than anyone else's (what a ****ing ridiculous thing for you to imply), I'm simply saying that the reason behind their suicide is prejudice against their sexuality, which is something straight children don't have to face. As such, there is inequality between straight and gay people, and it is an issue that needs to be addressed. The right to safety is an inalienable human right, and if children are being targetted for their sexuality, that's a problem that we as a society have a responsibility to address.

Saying that white males are largely responsible for the institutionalised prejudice against many minorities is not a racist comment, it's a fact supported by hundreds of years of history. What IS racist is exploiting or discriminating against someone simply for the colour of their skin, which from slavery to segregation is something that has been historically institutionalised by white people. It's largely been abolished, but in certain areas of society, it remains an issue (Arizona and Alabama's anti-immigrant laws, racial profiling at airports and by police, workplace discrimination, etc).

We don't need to 'coddle' these groups, but we do have a responsibility to them that they enjoy the same rights as anyone else. At this point in time, they simply do not. It's not an opinion, it's fact. Your definition of equality is the same as mine--everyone deservese to be treated the same--but at the moment, that isn't happening, and the groups that are fighting for the rights of minorities are fighting for YOUR vision of equality. The only difference is between you and them is that you think we're already there, and they know we're not.

 

I can't be who you're fighting against. I don't treat anyone less than equal...ever.

I also don't elevate anyone...like y'all do...needlessly.

Everyone is equal. No one is special.

Therefore no one deserves a group claiming they're victims every other day.

 

What planet do you come from...and, when are you going back?

 

To comment on the whole being stuck in the abusive relationships, I'd like to add there are many different types of abuse that getting out of a relationship, is not so black and white that you just pick and walk away from it. Even though I'm mainly talking about women here, men also are subject to abuse too.

Physical abuse - can range from things such as actual hitting, punching, to scaring the girl by threatening to drive into oncoming traffic, withholding meals that leads to malnutrition, starvation, threatening to hurt the kids, refusing to take someone to the hospital when they are sick, and withholding medication.

Emotional/psychological abuse - verbal abuse, promising to do something and then not doing it - over and over again, mentally breaking down a girls self confidence and self esteem, withholding the children or threatening to take them away, making kids pick sides, and many more.

Monetary abuse - control every money movement. What to buy, where you can go, what you can order to eat, how far you can drive. Refusing to allow her to work or go to school but making her stay at home.

Sexual abuse - over jealousy when a girl even looks at another guy, pressure to have sex or engage in sexual activity when the victim doesn't want etc.

I have to agree with Aaron in saying that it's not easy to just make a run from it. Abuses ranges from so many different things and the victims are often broken down so much that the victims themselves end up believing that their abuser is actually looking out for them, or that it's better to stay with him than leave. A mother will stay for the kids. sometimes girls don't have an option to escape as they are physically held captive - I don't agree that it's the girls fault. Not in an abusive relationship. And a lot of that has to do with education. Some girls don't know they are being abused and think it's actually is love. Some who come from a home where they were abused as a child can later end up in an abusive relationship and not think it's not right because abuse is all they have ever known.

Lack of education in recognizing the signs of abuse is another major factor. Further, these women often don't KNOW they have places they can go and if they do know - either they are being threatened on their life or they lack the courage to do it because they've been broken down so bad.

Sometimes, abuse is extremely subtle like parents feeding their kids junk food all the time to where they become over weight and/or obese - and even knowing that junk food is bad for them and is adding to the health problems of the child, they continue to do so because of lack of education or some other factors.

Sometimes, its even society that also are the abusers. Places where men hitting the women at home is okay and accepted. And for a girl to break away from that or argue against that, she becomes outcasted by society, family and friends. And where is she supposed to go then? This happens all the time and it adds to the whole aspect of the girl abusing herself by berating herself that she should be able to handle it.

It's not a choice in some ways because most of the times, you don't know you have a choice. I argue that education is the most important factor - it the probably the most effective preventative measure that you can use. With education, you learn of the signs, and you learn of your choices. You also learns ways to deal and ways to escape if you need to. It works better when your recognize the signs early on and get out. But if you don't and you're in an abusive situation for years and years, it gets harder to get out of.

 

A planet that doesn't need groups to cause separation in humanity.

 

If men and women are equal, then women abuse men as well.

Which you didn't mention in all your comment. And I think that education is important and that women are not victims just because they're women. That's how almost everyone is commenting here. Women are not victims due to their pluming.

Oh but we're not saying that.

Yes. You. Are.

And if abuse was important to stop, then people would talk about ALL of it, not just what happens to women...as if men cannot be abused by women.

But it's not as frequent...it's rare.

Really? If that's your line of thinking...then no wonder this planet is doomed.

 

You should learn to read before blatantly arguing and twisting words. Honestly. I've even bolted it for you in case you can't find it.

 

I did read that. But that's subjecting men to the background as if their abuse doesn't matter.

who exactly fights for abused men? What group is that?

 

Actually she did, right off the bat....

HA! Guess I was a little slow! Sorry, Sundae.....

 

I have to say this and I hope it helps. Most of the problems are not racism or sexism it is cultural. Do we exclude women from being construction workers? no. Do we exclude men from being nurses? no. Then why are there more men in construction then women? Why are there more women in nursing then men? This is because given the choice a man will chose construction over nursing. Why is that? It is because of our culture. Does it need to change? Yes, but it takes a long time to change a culture. The books are only going to reflect our current state in our culture. That does not make the writer sexist just the culture they are reflecting. Should we be outraged? Yes, but at the culture not the writer.

* Steps off the soap box and hands it to the next person. *

 

Women are better nurses because they are better caregivers. Men are better construction workers cause they are stronger and don't sue over work site conversation.

 

Now that is sexist. I know some very good male nurses and I know some very good female construction workers. Granted the female construction worker I know is not dainty and probably has more muscle than I.

 

Please discontinue the feeding of the trolls

 

If that is what you wish not to do, no one should have responded to the inital post

Too bad the fact that more women are nurses and choose to be than men and men choose to be construction workers more than women is undeniable.

Exceptions and the tiresome phrase "I know this person..." Are not the rules that reality continues to show.

 

Mud for Boys, Tiaras for Girls

They might not choose based on sex if society didn't place us in boxes.

American society, while always improving in terms of gender equality, still manages to see women as one thing and men as another. It's called gender socialization, and it is the reason that there are more female nurses and more male construction workers.

When you were a little kid, you were probably given toys that aligned with a particular gender. Boys get toy hammers and airplanes and trains and lego sets, girls get baby dolls, doll houses, play dresses, toy kitchens. And you wonder why there are more male construction workers/pilots/engineers vs. caretakers/stay-at-home parents/teachers? From birth we are given a set of expectations, and honestly, it's a miracle that there are any women in construction and men in nursing.

There are women who are not "natural caregivers" and men who are far from "strong." Hiding behind rationalization like that will get you nowhere. In fact, attitudes like that are the reason that some men, frightened of emotions, unable to express themselves through communication, seek to express their feelings through their "strength," and take out anger, jealousy, and fear on those less powerful than them, be it other men, children, or women.

Sorry to feed the trolls, but I just think that if we don't fight against certain things, if we just stop, no progress will be made. Although I understand very much not wanting to argue pointlessly. It's kind of like banging your head against a wall.

 

OMG next you'll tell me men can shoot babies out their penis and I'm not talking about batter.

You put yourself in the overflowing box labeled not in a box.

Not to mention putting people you disagree with in a box labeled troll.

No open minded people here, apparently.

 

I told myself I would stop getting involved, but honestly, you make it way too hard not to. If you really TRULY feel that the arguments against you are not "open-minded" then do us and yourself a favour and leave. Obviously no one appreciates your standpoint.

 

I don't really agree with you (the qoute part the troll part im qith you 100%

Hormones majke guys want to be "Strong" even before toys where around
Can what you said increse it? I guess sure but so can putting them in pink and they ahve to "proove" they are tough
but the fact remains guys are way more likely to want to be "tough"
not cause of socity but becuse in nature the male is the strong one

And I played with dolls with my cusion i still wanted to be "Strong" i still do

A guy or girl who says "we dont" are liying or its in the subson (if shuch a thing exists) as it is in their hormones

to many pepole are blaming evreything on socity
This is a natural thing (which is how it came around in the first place)
In almost all anmails there is a domonait sex
most of the times males sometimes females
the point is dont bblame it on socity (blame it makes it worse maybe)
but nature did it long before socity

 

You realise that you wrote this in reply to a post drawing attention to the close-minded way society conceives of gender? You don't see any irony in calling someone close-minded when that's the very thing they're critiquing? It seems to me (and apparently to everyone else here) that you are the close-minded one, who refuses to acknowledge any social or sexual inequality and thinks that they have no responsibility to any one else in the world?

I want to believe you're just a little confused or misguided, but you make it very hard to believe you're not just a troll deliberately provoking people. You're either a genius prankster, or a seriously disturbed individual...

 

Oh, so you intend on bullying those that you don't agree with.

Typical.