Ask him what the weather is like where he is. And what will he do for those thousands? I'm wondering why you're even considering this. Sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into it.
Yeah, the chances I'd deal with them are near-zero either way. I'm not really sure why I'm interested in checking them out like this, but I guess it keeps me entertained. Makes me feel like Sherlock Holmes or some shit. Or Dirk Gently. Let's go with Dirk Gently. He'll have to google it just like me, I suspect.
even if he were genuinely in sacremento there's plenty of shysters and conmen in the US, theres no such thing as a 'scammy country' anymore, they're everywhere
Out of mere curiosity, since I might end up paying money for ads one day, what is your initial /book advertising budget, Bakker?
If you do Facebook or AMS ads my advice is to start with. Five dollars a day until you know what you are doing. If you go higher it’s very easy to spend a lot of money without making many sales
I don't know if that's US dollars or pesos or whatever, but you'll get a better return on the investment spending the money on crack.
Oh, absolutely. Nobody's out there to help you, including the people who are out there to help you. That's the first thing I taught my mother when she got "that internet thing." But generally I get approached by Indian guys named William who can get me on the New York Times bestsellers list for 200 bucks. Eh. I could actually go up to 3000. I've got money saved up that was supposed to go to a 1970 Challenger RT, but then I remembered I live in the Netherlands and I won't be able to make the turn into my street. But even so, I think 3000 (total) would be the upper limit, and I'd much prefer to spend less. I don't believe I'd be able to break even with a big investment, legit or not. And that's in the case of big-boy advertising. Like, campaign stuff. If we just look at what I can do on my own, i.e. Amazon or Facebook, five bucks a day is kinda it. Got stuff running on Amazon. Even at 5 dollars a day I'm in the red, but I'm selling more than I would without it, so... hobby-money, right? I'm mostly just entertaining these big money ideas to get into places I can't reach on my own, magazines, bus stop posters, whatever. Somewhere the competition is a little less. Part of the reason Amazon ads are less effective, I feel, is that everybody's doing it. So by that logic I would have to do something less people are doing. Unfortunately that means spending more money. Dollars. But the problem with crack is that I'd have to go outside to sell it. I don't like outside. The winter update just dropped and the temperature stats have been nerfed.
One more round. I'm starting to annoy them. First few mails with Jason Parker were in very nicely spellchecked English. Then I replied to the prices by saying I expected more scammy prices, but these at least looked like real marketing prices. As always, soon as you mention scams, they start screwing up. It's like calling the sweaty dude in the Mickey Mouse costume by his real name. He dodged the question of the books they handle that I might know, instead offering to show the work they'd done instead, but then not actually showing the work. And while he remains polite, there are now spelling mistakes and typos in his reply. Oddly, this bothers me the most. Despite already obviously being a scam, and even though I told him we could keep communication informal, shitty spelling gets me. It's almost disrespectful. Like, "I'll communicate with you, but you're not worth the effort of doing it properly." Shit, even if they were the biggest marketing game in town I'd have my reservations of bad spelling. Anyway. I asked him for that work. Show daddy your homework, mf, and I'll see if there's any writers in there I need to warn about having their name used in vain.
thats dodgy logic, everyones doing t because it works,if you go to like twitter ads or google ads or something that far fewer writers use you'll spend a lot of money to no purpose its very hard to get a positive return on investment with a single book, i found i started getting there rouns about book 3 writing in a series... that aside its about controlling your cost, not going with their suggested bids, optimising your blurb and cover, and and being clear about what an acceptable cost per click looks like for you (it can also mean your prices are too low, with like a 99c book theres not much head room unless its a loss lead for a series)
I have a hard time imagining 3k going that far, even just in terms of exposure rather than considering sales, especially if has to go through a middle man's GI tract. While competition is innately part of any market (someone's going to dominate those Amazon search results) I think a writer faces far more competition from other mediums than from within his own. For example if you had a million dollars and could afford to broadcast some ads on TV or TikTok, you're reaching more people, but likely fewer in the demographic that would want to read any book at all.
I definitely don't disagree that it works. But it works for everybody, which brings me back to my favorite analogy: Leaving early to beat the traffic and sitting in a traffic jam with all the other people who left early. That's sort of the paradox I'm trying to find a way around, with the main issue now being that if I can do it, so can everybody else. Yeah, about that. I know one shouldn't market just one book, and come February 14rg, I'll have three out. But they're not a series. Same universe, sure, but they could technically be read separately. Does the same rule apply? I had a chance to speak with my girlfriend's brother in law, who used to be in advertising, and I can wholeheartedly say no. It does not. Another reason I'm looking at other options. Advertising on Amazon, or one of those, you're up against the low-content system-gaming bastards. I'll admit I haven't checked, but I'm willing to guess that the best advertised book on Amazon isn't worth reading. I can deal with competition. If somebody more passionate than myself, more skilled at writing than myself, blows by me and leaves me in the dust, they feckin earned it. After all, for me, this is more a hobby than anything, and the problem is solely with me. But seeing it snowed under by a bunch of asshats who don't care doesn't sit well with me. I just reread that. Man, I'm a grumpy old idealistic bastard.
Bakkerbaard, if these 'publishers' get back to you, you can just tell them what Harlan Ellison said. Best rant ever. I just read that, at one event, an obnoxious "fan" pushed their way to the front of his desk with a stack of books to be signed. Ellison took the intrusion with (relative) grace, and then queried why there were so many duplicated titles in the stack. "They'll be worth more money when you're dead!" Ellison nodded and began signing them. Some time later, the so-called "fan" returned, screaming that his books were ruined. Why? Because Ellison had signed them all "JRR Tolkien".
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess Dreams With Sharp Teeth didn't turn a big profit if they had him. ;o) I'm stealing that one. Unless, of course, I'm already dead by the time I become famous. Then I'll just sign my own name. Fair's fair. Grand Publishers, by the way, seem to have given up. Showing me the work is a step too far for them.
No skin off your nose, then. Even assuming they were legit, someone as lazy as that isn't worth dealing with.
Okay, Definitely dodged a bullet, sort of. 500$ for a campaign, I was absolutely not paying for that. Blocked all contact info after a 'phone call'. Glad I didn't get too far into the conversation to engage further.
Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. I just like screwing around with these asshats. You know the rule of thumb, I'm sure: If they approach you, they're getting better off it. Just, every now and then, you kinda hope a good one leaks through. And then your hopes get crushed like a beetle under a boulder and you remember why you're a misanthrope.
Again, I can't stop giggling at the analogy and imagining you as a misanthrope straight out of 19th-century melodrama, crushing beetles under rocks, twirling your moustaches, swirling a black cloak lined with red silk, and cackling "Mwa-ha-ha" madly. "Ha ha! Thus we shall crush the skulls of our enemies, flatten their dwelling places into rubble, see their people with their faces bathed in tears, and squeeze in our arms their daughters and women!!" ... OK, that just went off into a dark and unexpected place ... (And yes, Conan the Barbarian said something similar. I just went back to the original Chinggis Khan quote and slightly paraphrased it).
What an unfortunate way to find out the latch on my laptop cam is open. That, uh... That's all you saw, right?
Actually, I just used my imagination. *G* Before I was a music performance nerd, I was a theatre nerd (and performed live theatre) for about 10 years. One of the plays I was in was Gilbert and Sullivan's "Ruddigore", which is a funny parody of 19th-century melodrama, full of "Mwa-ha-ha"s, swirling capes, mistaken identities, a ghost scene or two, etc. I thought it was lots of fun. So, of course your post tickled my funny bone.
Grand Publishers wouldn't get a second look around where I'm living, I'm afraid, where grand doesn't mean anything very good. Like the amateur bag man with the amateur rugby team trying to shove the bone back in from a compound fracture to the thumb of the best tackler while saying, "he'll be grand" (based on actual events). If you ask a friend how they are and they respond "I'm grand," you follow up with "Why, what's wrong?" If you get the same response from your special other, you follow up with a few phonecalls to see where you might bunk down for a few nights. The name, despite the literal meaning of the words, would have put me off straight away.
*shrugs at Dick & Muttley* These two only started in 1968? Amateurs. There were at least two famous moustache-twirlers long, long before -- Yosemite Sam and Wile E. Coyote. And Wile E. Coyote always says how he's a "super-genius" and always gets flattened ... or other things (like being squeezed into a concertina). I suspect Hanna-Barbera stole the "Dick getting flattened" moments from the Warner Brothers "Wile E. Coyote gets flattened" moments. They look very similar). Anyway, this character trope has a long tradition, all the way back to when cackling melodrama villains (usually with a deep, booming bass voice, suitable to a "mwa-ha-ha") started tying ingénues (aka innocent or unsophisticated young woman, especially in a play or film) to railroad tracks. Naturally, at the end of the play or film, these villains got their comeuppance. **WARNING: I'm about to digress and talk about the history of "mwa-ha-ha" villains before that, so feel free to skip the rest of this post. But I hope you don't, because I'll try to make it interesting** Before that, there was opera, and the aforementioned people-with-a-bass-voice usually played villains of two kinds: 1. A comic villain (aka buffo in Italian, buffoon/clown in English), usually played by a male singer who specialises in comic roles. The buffo roles are common in Italian and French operas. One of the classic buffo roles is Don Bartolo in Rossini's The Barber of Seville, who fancies Rosina, the rich but young female pupil in his house. He's her guardian, but wants to marry her. (Figaro, the barber, foils the plot and helps Rosina escape. Bartolo is a bumbling idiot, so of course Figaro succeeds). 2. A dramatic villain, often also played by a bass with a very low, loud, dark, and booming voice (aka basso profundo, i.e. "profound" bass). These roles include gods (e.g. Woden/Odin in Wagner's Ring cycle) or military commanders (e.g. Il Commendatore/The Commander in Mozart's Don Giovanni). They have a commanding presence, often tall and strong physically. Their songs (or "arias", to use an opera term) usually resolve the story and bring it near its end. For instance, Odin punishes Brunhilde (a valkyrie) for disobeying him in Wagner's Die Walküre (The Valkyries), the second in the Ring Cycle of four operas. In Don Giovanni, the Don murders the Commander and kidnaps his daughter. In the end, the Commander comes back from the dead and sends Don Giovanni to hell, and so on. Incidentally, these dramatic villains aren't always kings and gods. In Verdi's Aida, the solo bass is Ramfis, the high priest - and he had bass-priest backups, too. Having said that, the priests in Aida are bigoted warmongers. This isn't surprising, given that Verdi had a very low opinion of the Church (because one, the Vatican helped Austria-Hungary oppress the Italians; and two, Verdi's wife and daughter died within months of each other, and the Catholic priests could not console the grief-stricken composer). In revenge, perhaps, Verdi set the Requiem mass to his own music, his famous Requiem (which I've performed). The most famous passage is the second part, the Dies Irae (day of wrath), which features drums, trumpets, and a thundering chorus. It is full of sound and fury, a struggle against everything that makes life difficult; but this famous piece ends with two repeated words, mors (death) and nil (nothing). Was Verdi telling us that there is nothing after we die? Was he taking a potshot at the Church that way? Some people think so. Anyway, opera is all about the human experience: struggle and grief and death, yes, but also marriage and fun, dancing and drinking. So, I'm so sorry for digressing, but I hope it wasn't boring!
This is exactly the kind of stuff I'll learn today, and then call someone else stupid for not knowing tomorrow. Or come Sunday, when I will be working at a TV show about classical music. Can't call anybody stupid there, because even the janitor plays the cello or something, but at least I can impress the cute editor with the fact I'm capable of learning. Different side note: Got contacted by a new one, this time. Go Edge Creative. They congratulated me on the success of Cute: A darkly comic near-future dystopian satire, which exists. Except Bob Palmer's name is pretty clearly legible on the cover. So I told them it was awesome that they heard of it and asked them if they had a chance to read it, how they liked it. When I've got them good and talking I'll just casually ask them to check the name on the cover or something. Kinda like luring someone onto a platform and then pulling the lever. While twirling my moustache, of course.
Don't forget Snidely Whiplash antagonist of Dudley Do-Right of the Mounties featured on the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show.
