1. in2media67

    in2media67 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0

    help needed with how police investigate

    Discussion in 'Research' started by in2media67, Mar 9, 2017.

    in the book im trying to write the new owner takes out a stud wall, he notices the wall is a lot thicker then norm and finds a skull in the wall, explaining why the wall was so thick
    1, how would the police trace the previous owner of the house who is thought to have gone abroad after his marriage fails?
    any help appreciated
     
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin The game sour like a pickle be.... Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    6,479
    Likes Received:
    12,771
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Well, I'm no cop, but I would assume the police would get with the State Department and check the status of his passport. Either he left the country of he did not. If he did he either came back or he did not. If he is still listed as out of the country then the State Department (or some other federal agency) would check with their counterparts in the last known country of ingress. What happens then in beyond me, but I would assume if he's in a friendly developed country the authorities there would track him down so long as they had sufficient cause to do so. If it's a country like France or Venezuela, which have no extradition to the US (or anywhere? not sure), things would be more complicated. Venezuela might tell the US to take a hike but the French might be more cooperative. Also, I'm not sure how jurisdiction would work here if a crime is involved. If the federal authorities have to track down an ex-patriot I'm not sure if the case becomes federal or if the dude would be returned to a local jurisdiction for prosecution.
     
  3. in2media67

    in2media67 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok thanks for that, appreciate the help
     
  4. JE Loddon

    JE Loddon Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    South-East, UK
    I think the lengths they would go to find the guy would depend on if they could be sure the skull was put in there during the time he lived there. I'm sure this has probably been on an episode of Bones or CSI, try checking that out.
     
  5. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    1,989
    Sufficient cause would probably be more than "we found this skull, we haven't dated it, etc."

    As @JE Loddon alluded to, there would be forensic procedures to date the skull, and to try to identify it ("It matches in age and gender a young woman who disappeared seven years ago. She was last seen coming out of Mo's Bar at around midnight. Police gave up after a couple of weeks when no body turned up, put her down as gone to the big city. I mean, who'd want to spend their life in a hick small town like this?") - It used to be done by dental records, nowadays it would be DNA...if you have DNA from before she disappeared (why would you?) or from a sufficiently close relative. And then, where's the matching body? I'd expect them to dig up the garden/yard to try to find her.

    Incidentally, are you suggesting that the skull is now just bones? In which case, what happened to the perishable bits? Didn't they give off a smell as they decomposed?

    As far as separation of the skull from the body is concerned, how would this be done? A sharp sword/axe is HARD...the number of times that a mediaeval beheading was botched, and needed several blows (Game of Thrones is NOT reliable research!)...hacksaw/chainsaw would be easier, but obviously time-consuming and messy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,110
    Likes Received:
    19,071
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    This also assumes he didnt flee using false ID or by crossing a border illegally - okay most people don't have false ID , but then most people don't kill people and wall them up in their houses either
     
  7. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    1,989
    I suspect that false ID is even more rare than walling up corpses!

    Easier back in the day of Day of the Jackal, not so easy now that any passport will be checked against live/dead records; so you'd have to go for forged. Or just smuggling yourself over the border like a wetback - but in the opposite direction! Get out now, before that wall goes up!
     
  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,110
    Likes Received:
    19,071
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    I guess the canadian border is pretty porous - or stow away/bribe a a boat owner or steal a boat. Or if you have money buy a passport on the black market - US passports are dificult, but theres still a flourishing trade in third world passport where corrupt embassy officials will take a bribe to put you on the system (or at least its plausible to suggest their might be)

    Come to that america is a big place, if you kept yourslf to yourself i bet you could lose yourself in another state and just use a false name if you stayed out of the cities and away from government agencies

    Or indeed if you've walled up your wifes corpse so you have time fly legitimately on your own passport out of the Us to somewhere like thailand where the law is more flexible for those with cash, then establish your false identity and disapear.
     
  9. in2media67

    in2media67 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for the usefull info, ive quite a few ideas towards the plot now

    Incidentally, are you suggesting that the skull is now just bones? In which case, what happened to the perishable bits? Didn't they give off a smell as they decomposed?
    there was no perishables on the skull when it was put in the wall, that was some twist i put in my story,,

    it all took place in uk apart from when the killer fled abroad.

    i know how they determine the id of the skull (thats all in place) i was just unsure how far the police would go to trace the previous owners of the house to see if they knew about the remains etc

    thanks again
     
  10. S A Lee

    S A Lee Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    Greater London, England
    If you're in the UK, then I can tell you from personal experience, go down to your local police station and ask if someone will answer some general questions for research purposes. As long as you do not cite cases (confidentiality) they will be happy to answer questions to help you represent them accurately.

    Now, onto the question at hand:

    -On the smell of rotting flesh. I think the answer here depends on how airtight the space is. Smell works by having volatile particles in the air we breathe in. If the air is not flowing from the rotting flesh to the person, such as one is in a space where the air cannot reach the other, it won't be noticed. That said, we're talking about plasterboard here, so it might be different.

    -A specialist is likely to be called in to retrieve the skull, identify what they can, and maybe even create a predicted likeness from the features of the bones. From there they'd probably use the likeness to look into missing individuals.

    -In terms of speaking to the previous home-owner: The Identity and Passport office would have a record of his passport and what country he flew to. However, if he fled to a European country, he could have driven to another country from there with little problem (at least for now) under the Schengen Agreement.
     
  11. in2media67

    in2media67 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok thanks for the info on the police, i never thought of asking them directly.
    on the smell, i got that covered
    forensics ive covered
    ive got some info from here regarding identity and passport etc
    thanks again i appreciate the help
     
  12. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,381
    Likes Received:
    26,223
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Pretty sure the forensics team would run the victim through dental records
    database, as a way of identifying them.

    Though you have to establish how long the body has been there. It can take
    up to 50 years for a body to skeletonize in decomp based on the conditions
    of where the body is. Unless of course the killer has used a chemical process
    to destroy all the soft tissues and such.
    http://www.enki-village.com/how-long-does-it-take-for-a-body-to-decompose.html

    They would likely team up with the state department and/or FBI to get the
    info on the passport status of the original owner/killer, and work with the
    local law enforcement of the country where they are to get them extradited
    back to the states to be proven guilty or innocent.

    The tricky part of the investigation is if the victims remains do not have
    any physical signs of trauma that would have caused death ( like a
    fractured skull, cut or busted ribs due to knife/bullet wounds, etc.) .
    If the killer used a method of suffocation other than strangling, there
    would be no way to prove it based on the problem of no tissues to
    show the signs that to be the case.

    In short the law enforcement in the investigation would need to get
    a confession before filing charges against the killer, unless they have
    evidence that ties them directly to the crime.
     
  13. S A Lee

    S A Lee Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    Greater London, England
    @Cave Troll The OP has said it's a UK setting, so the FBI isn't likely to be involved unless the missing landlord is in fact in the US.
     
  14. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,110
    Likes Received:
    19,071
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    In the UK fleeing the country will be easy - just go to europe on your passport and there after you probably won't be asked to see it as you move from country to country

    or if you are already wanted and can't leave the country legitimately , go to NI (no passport needed) then cross the very permeable border into Eire and fly from there to wherever you want. Or take a small boat across the channel to a french beach
     
    Cave Troll likes this.
  15. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    1,989
    1/ If the skull was mere bones when it was walled up, how did it get into that state? Left to rot in the compost heap or similar? (Anybody know how long that would take?) Acid bath?

    2/ Previous OWNER; Land registry records (Land Registration Act 1925, as amended in 2002) is a shoo-in for the police. But that doesn't cover tenants, if the place has been rented out.
     
  16. in2media67

    in2media67 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok cheers for that
     
  17. big soft moose

    big soft moose The Moderating Moose Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,110
    Likes Received:
    19,071
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    take a look atthe reports on cromwell st (fre and rosemary west), They liked to keep victims burried in the garden or basement (apparently fred used to go down there to masturbate when the mood to him )
     
  18. in2media67

    in2media67 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks mate
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice