Thanks for your recommendation of the dictionary. I will buy the fifth edition of the dictionary. I bought Kindle DX when I was in Austin, TX for my visiting scholar program, so I may buy its Kindle edition and get it auto-delivered wirelessly to me. Thanks a lot again.
Hi, EdFromNY. This morning I read the startling news of the crash landing of a Boeing 777 in San Francisco and my heart goes out to the two families who lost their loved ones and those injured. On the website of msnbc at the end of its report on this tradgedy, I read the following paragraph: White House officials said President Obama is being updated on new developments while he remains at Camp David for the weekend. In a statement, the White House said the president’s thoughts and prayers go out to the families who lost a loved one and all those affected by the crash. Please notice the two places I underlined. My question is, why is the rule of "plural to plural" not adhered to here? Thanks!
So is this an English lesson or some moral admonishment? "stern" "responsible adults" Goodness. Have you considered teaching them to become critically thinking adults who can decide independently the correct path without such oversight? Just sayin...
right... 'each' after 'who' is implied... btw, neither of those versions makes sense... should be 'to become' instead of 'into'... love and hugs, maia
Thank you for your reply, GingerCoffee. In this crash landing two died and one is missing. I meant to ask whether we can say "In a statement, the White House said the president’s thoughts and prayers go out to the families who lost their loved ones and all those affected by the crash." instead.
Many native speakers insist that in whatever situation the rule of "plural-to-plural while singular-to-singular" should be adhered to. Now after reading your explanation I know there is the omission of "each" in this case. Then how about "the families who lost their loved ones"?
Thanks, maia. However, I want to know if you native speakers of English say "the families who lost their loved ones"-- that is, does "the families who lost their loved ones" sound natural to your native ears or is it that although "the families who lost their loved ones" is grammatically correct, you natives never say it?
Both "the families who lost their loved ones" and "the families who lost a loved one" sound perfectly natural to me as a native speaker. I consider them essentially interchangeable; when I compare them, I don't feel any significant difference in mood or meaning or any other nuance.
"tell the kids to make their bed" Well, only if the kids slept in the same bed! Otherwise, it would be considered grossly incorrect grammar. "raise their hand" No. Nope. Uh-uh. Never. This suggests that ALL of the children have ONE collective hand. Wrong. "draw their house" Again, only if all the kids lived in the same shoe... er, house. HOWEVER, this structure seems to suggest that they collaborate on one, single drawing. "all the kids want to become a doctor." Once again, this suggests that the bunch of kids are going to have surgery to meld their collective bodies into one, freakishly multi-armed and legged creature with a medical degree. That being said, this phrasing is not really uncommon in that the singular use of "hand" or "a doctor" individualizes the children. This, too, addresses the individual and not a collective. The parents (as a singular unit) want their child to become a doctor. Therefore each unit wants their (collective singular unit a la sheep singular/sheep plural) children to become doctors. But, since each unit only has one child and you are talking about multiple children becoming doctors but only one child at a time ... Whew! Face it. Language, perhaps especially American English, is a terribly confusing entity.
I love it when you say "this phrasing is not really uncommon in that the singular use of 'hand' or 'a doctor' individualizes the children. " I also thought that someone who says "All the kids want to become a doctor." or "The parents want their children to become a doctor." or "the families who lost a loved one." may actually be thinking of the kids or the children or the families as individuals or "collective singular unit" (citation of your words) or in your words " the singular use of 'hand' or 'a doctor' individualizes the children". However, when I thought of this possibility, I was unable to put it in proper English. Your "individualize" has helped me to figure it out. Thank you. BTW, does this language problem in fact involves, as in many other similar cases, the conflict between prescriptive grammar and descriptive grammar? I mean, could it be that many well-educated guys say we should adhere to the rule of "plural-to-plural while singular-to-singular" while in real life many guys never care about it and even some of the former may have tongue slips?
not really funny... it's just normal for anyone in any language... no one speaks in perfect grammar all the time... and being perfect in re grammar doesn't always = being 'well-spoken'... and certainly does not make for good writing...
Maim, you are right, this happens and can be seen in every language. As I often struggle with English when I try to express myself in it, I tend to be more focused on this language while nearly forgetting about some of its features being actually universal qualities to any language. Anyway, I am not biased against the English language; on the contrary, I appreciate its beauty and flexibility. And I love it since I can use it as a tool to know more about this world and seek help from you guys so that I can teach my students in a better way. Since I sounded offensive in my immediately preceding post, I hereby apologize to you and others who have read it and feel uncomfortable with it. I should have used "interesting" instead of "funny". Please forgive me.
there's no need to 'forgive' you, richard... you are always courteous [to a fault? ] and have never been the least bit offensive here... love and hugs, maia
Hi,maia. It is very kind of you to say so. I am one who never wants to offend others but I often fear I may sound offensive due to my being insensitive to the subtlety of English words and my failure to understand them well. My heartfelt thanks to you and many other members of this website for giving me a hand whenever I've got a problem.
