High Fantasy expectations

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Lea`Brooks, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. tonguetied

    tonguetied Contributor Contributor

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    And I thought it was the books on the top shelf of the fantasy section at the book store. Or maybe it is the most expensive books. :)
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Hmm. My list is:

    - Fantasy elements, by which I mean elements that are not tied to our real world or to science. I don't need them to be glittery fairy-tale elements, but I need them to be un-tethered from science.

    - A world that is very substantially different from our world, though I don't demand a complete disconnect.

    - A "big" plot--at least nation-sized, usually bigger.

    - The "big" plot should be driven by the fantasy elements.

    A lot of big epics that are commonly labelled as science fiction, I would also label as high fantasy. I'm going to start labelling various fictional things:

    Star Wars is high fantasy.

    The modern Battlestar Galactica I would call high fantasy. (Maybe the old one, too, but I never saw the old one.)

    Babylon 5, on the other hand, seems in the end to tie itself to science--maybe it's a loose tie, but it's there. So, not high fantasy.

    Star Trek both ties itself to science, and comes on a straight line from the real world, so I wouldn't give it the high fantasy label.

    Xena, I think I'd call high fantasy; the question there would be whether the plot gets big enough.

    Buffy definitely has big enough plot elements, but it's too tied to the real world.

    X Files is too tied to the real world, and some, though not all, of the plot elements are not tied to science.

    The Fifth Element is too straight a line from the real world, even though the plot is big enough and any connectio to science is pretty loose.

    I need to think some more.
     
  3. I.A. By the Barn

    I.A. By the Barn A very lost time traveller Contributor

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    What makes high fantasy for me would be:
    -Non-human races (already invented e.g. elves or of own creation) present, at least along side humans
    -Magic
    -A drastically different Earth or a new world
    -Creatures unique to that world
    -Detailed structure to world (history, religion, politics, status)
    -An 'epic' story, calling back to the size and grandness of Greek epics and mythos
     
  4. Acanthophis

    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    I don't think high fantasy is defined by the content, but by how you describe the content. Most people believe Star Wars is science fiction, because somewhere along the line we adopted the notion that space = science [fiction]. Star Wars is practically the definition of high fantasy; a farm boy [Luke] longing to do something important with his life meets a wizard [Ben Kenobi], the two set out on an adventure to help a princess [Leia] in need of aid, and stumble across a pair of roguish outliers [Han and Chewie] who help them complete their task. Along their journey they stumble into the big evil Empire, and its massive hordes of enemies to be thrown at our heroes [Stormtroopers]. As our heroes make their escape, the evil wizard/knight [Darth Vader] duels our heroic wizard, who sacrifices himself to help the main hero realize his destiny.

    I think fantasy is largely about letting go of reality (obviously lol), knowing that you needn't come up with a reason for every little thing you do. Star Wars makes no attempt at defining itself in the science realm - we aren't told how light Sabres or blaster rifle, space ships and the Death Star work. They simply do. Science fiction seeks to give us the explanation.

    It's entirely possible to have trolls, orcs, elves, dwarves, and whatever else is commonly encountered in high fantasy, to exist in other genres.
     
  5. Ms. DiAnonyma

    Ms. DiAnonyma Active Member

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    Fantastic thread! (not a "threat" right;-)
    Spectrum of opinions indeed... And we've only got about a dozen different responders so far!

    My pair o' pennies...
    High Fantasy is more about a certain feel- a foreign, "epic" feel, if you will (imo). How you get this "feel" into your work is variable, but might be easier if you look at what epics have in common, since high fantasy is generally a type of attempt to make a sort of epic by modern authors (at least, that's what rather what Tolkien said, making an English "myth"- and not just a misty, musty story to bust). What do the Mahabharata, Aeneid, Beowulf, and Divine Comedy all have in common? (Hint: they're not all written in the same language, by the same type of person, or any other superficial label that I can think of.) Disregard the fact that they're all poems, and you've got an idea of how varied epics can be, while all retaining their "epic" quality.

    It helps to have another world- but isn't necessary imo. (Plenty of classic fairy tales seem like they could be elevated to high fantasy, depending on how they're told).

    Diction is an interesting point- words and phrases that smack too much of our own, unmagical world disrupt the epic feel. As in, if the language is specific enough to sound like a particular, familiar century, it wouldn't have quite the universal feel of fantasy. (imo, fantasy shouldn't always sound like just the middle ages, but that's often considered the model period of choice (elements of knights and kings, some civilization, but not too much technological development yet- with that you run the risk of falling into the potential magic of technology- the stuff of sci-fi).

    @tonguetied: Yeah, if you play the Dewey decimal system right, you can move up... though there's certainly something to the expensive ones with the nice covers- they probably weren't self-published, and want to at least look like a book that should be read again and again, not just once for the thrills...
     
  6. SamHammarberg

    SamHammarberg New Member

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    Normal fantasy is just fiction that deals with magic or supernatural elements in some major way, whereas high fantasy is always set in a world created by the author, and deals with more adult themes. That is the defined difference between the two, as I remember it.

    As for discussion of the genre, I suppose I'll be the first and most likely the last to say that it's the form of literature I respect the absolute least. Maybe they are difficult to write well, but in the end all they offer the reader is escapism taken to an extreme.
     

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