How can I create "suspension of disbelief"?

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Ryan Elder, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    82
    Okay thanks. So it's more plausible, if he's that much more delusional?
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    Possibly. The whole "cause" idea has never worked for me and still doesn't, but removing women's legal rights is at least a cause that can be stated. It also makes his making stupid mistakes that get him caught/killed more plausible, because he could see himself as a martyr for the vital cause of enslaving women.
     
  3. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    82
    Okay thanks. That's what I was going for originally was that he saw himself as a martyr. In the original story, the MC, created the website of fake fans all devoted to him as a means to make him feel wanted and cherished, and then it will get the villain to join the website and the MC could eventually get him to make a mistake and smoke him out.

    But if the website idea still doesn't work, then I will use a different method for the MC to go after him then., but the idea was is that he would use his flaw against him to figure out who he is.
     
  4. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    Is the villain supposed to be a mad genius, or a sulky little boy?

    Because we've definitely seen similar violence from the pathetic little boys who want to punish women for rejecting them. I think the issue is if you want to turn your villain from a spree killer into someone who maintains his pathetic plan longer term. If your villain is supposed to be intelligent and capable, then I agree with @ChickenFreak that his plan needs to make more sense, as does the plan for catching him. If he's just a loser who gets his hands on a gun one day, I'd accept the more nebulous cause-and-effect issues.
     
  5. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,023
    Likes Received:
    9,676
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    OK, from what I gather, he's supposed to be some evil mastermind who wants to turn all women into mindless sex slaves. So how would he do it? Brainwashing? Maybe he develops an electrical shock collar programmed to administer a painful shock (the level varied, etc.) if the wearer refuses to the person's demands? Does he kidnap lonely, stray women and brainwash/electrical collar them?

    So to use @ChickenFreak 's formula:

    "I was rejected by too many women! (x) so I will create a utopia of men by founding a small village where my supporters and I kidnap and brainwash/collar women for our bidding (y), because no man deserves to be rejected and to suffer the pain I felt! (z)"

    Am I correct in this, ChickenFreak?
     
  6. Inks

    Inks Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    171
    Yeah Ryan - it sounds like you have become reliant on other people's input to build your story. When you have an issue or a conflict result from the different inputs, well... the natural thing is to ask "how do I fix it?" However, this only makes the problem worse because I do not think we have ever read a significant (or even a full excerpt) of your story.

    Since we do not even have a good description or sense of the character, how can we provide great insight into the actions of the character? Important and critical actions need to make logical sense, one cannot have Harry Potter decide to go get plastered with Wizard Drinks and come on to Hermione or Ron - but gosh did I ever hate Book 7 because it was full of facepalm stupidity by formerly smart characters. It was worse then that damn chrono clock thing Hermione abused and then was never seen again.

    You do not have to have a logically perfect book, but crime dramas and thrillers need to be a lot more spot on about sensible actions because the reader is actually testing your ability to be convincing on levels that few genres have. I will not write such works because I know I do not have sufficient background to properly do them well.
     
  7. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    82
    Okay thanks. Well I wrote the full script way back and sent it in to readers for feedback. The pointed out numerous plot problems and so I came on here, mostly in the plot development forum, rather than the character development forum, because they were plot problems... I wanted to address each scenario to figure out what the problem is. I was also told by writers that

    I should not have written a full script, because that makes it difficult to break it apart after, and I should have instead written an outline and just send in the outline to read. Is it best to write a script in full to get a good understanding of the characters before knowing if it works, or not, or is it best to write just an outline to see if it works?

    ChickenFreak also says that I should come up with the characters first and let the characters decisions be made from their emotions and motivations.

    I was also told on here long before, that my story is much more 'plot driven' though, and therefore I should come up with the plot first, then mold the characters to fit that plot. In a 'character driven' story you come up with the characters first and let the plot be determined by them. Is this true though, and I was right to come up with the plot first, then mold the characters to fit it, or is the problem that it's not character driven first?

    As to whether not the villain is a 'mastermind' or 'sulky little boy', I know who the villain is, and why he does what he does. I don't assign my characters labels like that though. I can explain who the villain is, and why, but I cannot give him a relative label, cause I do not think of him as neither.

    His evil intentions are insecure, but at the time same time he knows forensics and police procedure, and is smart enough to evade them for months, until the MC has to appeal to his weakness to flush him out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    But you can't have a completely, totally unmotivated plot. A bank robbery plot, for example, is motivated by the fact that everybody wants money, and the robbery will produce money. There is no such line of logic for your plot here. It seems to be completely unmotivated.

    One thing that would help would be eliminating the "cause" aspect. If he just wants revenge for the fact that society didn't ensure that he can have any woman that he wants, then that's a plot--revenge. But a "cause" needs a goal, and actions that work toward that goal, and there's no such things here.

    Do you watch South Park? Do you know the underpants gnomes episode? There were a bunch of gnomes stealing underpants, and their business plan was:

    Phase 1: Collect Underpants
    Phase 2: ????
    Phase 3: Profit!!!

    Your villain's plan seems to be:

    Phase 1: Commit crimes
    Phase 2: ???
    Phase 3: Men like me get sex!

    But there's no ???. Therefore there is no plot.
     
  9. Inks

    Inks Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    171
    @Ryan Elder - Let's try something.

    Here is a simple questionaire link that you should try for your characters.

    These are pretty basic questions and if you have to pause and think about them, that's good - it means you can develop your character a lot more. This is a jumping off point, it should get the ball rolling. Do this for each your MCs.
     
  10. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    82
    Okay thanks. I see what you mean ChickenFreak. No I don't watch South park. The villain needs a plan on HOW to finish, the goal, right? Well I am not sure how the villain would get what he wants in this case. I mean a lot of cases with serial killer or terrorist types, can never get what they want no matter how often they go out and commit crimes in many cases.

    So even though my villain keeps doing it, he won't really get what he wants. If kidnapping women, and taking advantage of them is not enough, are their any other methods of achieving his goal, other than doing what he is doing?
     
  11. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,023
    Likes Received:
    9,676
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    Awesome fine. I think I'll be using this for all my main characters. :D Thanks.
     
  12. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    82
    Okay thanks. I read over the list. A lot of the things to know about the character do not seem necessary though. Does it matter where they were born, or their favorite color or food for example? Since it's a screenplay, if I cast an actor who has an accent from a different state, is that going to alter the characters behavior?

    If his favorite color is green and his favorite food tacos, does that mean he will likely become a different type of character personality and motivation, than if his favorite color is blue and his favorite food is spaghetti?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
  13. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,023
    Likes Received:
    9,676
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    OK, now you're overthinking this. The point is that there are questions in that list that can help you explain the motivation behind why your antagonists and protagonists do the things they do. Liking the color green and eating at Taco Bell probably doesn't matter, so you can skip those kinds of questions.

    Things like where he was born? I would think it does matter as, in my opinion, the environment in which you grew up in helps define/mold you to who you are today.
     
  14. Imaginarily

    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    753
    *steals @Inks' link and uses it for all future character development ever*

    :write:
     
  15. Inks

    Inks Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    171
    My choice of colors come out because I only wear red and blue shirts, rarely black, in my daily life. It does not have to be anything real deep, just a preference. If you were to offer me a choice between any color of mugs/plates and such - I'd choose a teal color. It doesn't have to be really a standout thing, but anyone who knows me is aware of my color preferences because it is how I balance things. This forums color scheme has blue and white, making me happy. If it was red or green - I'd probably be shyer then I already am.
     
  16. Ryan Elder

    Ryan Elder Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    82
    Oh yeah I see. Well for my villain, I can already picture his wardrobe in my head, but I haven't had as much time picturing how his home is decorated, but for some reason I see it being kind of old fashioned and European looking...
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice