How do I create a gay character without being disrespectful?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by cutecat22, Oct 8, 2017.

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  1. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    "Hey, can you give me a ride to the metro? My husband has the car today."

    "No, I just don't get along with him. But he is practically a twin of my ex, so that could be the problem."

    "Let's stop by Cocolat. I want to get Jake something for Valentine's day."
     
  2. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    "Don't you find it a little weird when Chase comes into the dressing room?"
    "Don't worry about it, we're definitely not his type. You'll get used to it."

    No flouncing or stereotypes, establishes that the dancers are comfortable around him, and doesn't explicitly state that he's gay.
     
  3. Ice Nov

    Ice Nov New Member

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    That's pretty good actually. I'd go with that one.
     
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  4. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    This thread has been fairly civil, given the history of threads dealing with similar topics. Let's keep it that way and not accuse each other of excessive pot-stirring. Mods are watching, and we don't want to have to take any mod-type action here. Cool? Good. :)
     
  5. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    So why do so many on here seem offended by it?
     
  6. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    It seems that no matter which way I go, someone will find offence one way or the other.
     
  7. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Because in your posts, you're pretty clearly distinguishing between your idea of how heterosexual men shake hands, and your idea of how homosexual men shake hands. The idea that sexual orientation determines handshaking methods is a pretty offensive idea.

    I very much doubt that people are going to be offended if you don't use any stereotypes about gays.

    Is there some reason why that is simply not an option?
     
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  8. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    I don't think anyone is offended, nor is it a case of people finding offence 'one way or another'. The fact of the matter is that having a weak handshake is largely considered a feminine trait, and gay men are stereotyped as feminine. You started this thread asking how to write this character without being disrespectful, and I think people have tried to offer you advice on how to do that - and one way to go about it is to avoid stereotypes, which can often be rather dehumanizing and, yes, disrespectful. In a well-rounded character, it's not going to be an issue, because the surface stereotype is backed up by the rest of the character, and the behavior/etc is explained and not the only note they operate on. But for a bit player, perhaps it's not best to have their only note be one we've heard applied to that type of character a thousand times.
     
  9. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    I was hanging out with some friends at a regular saloon-style bar. There was live music, a dance floor, pool tables, and a bar. One of my friends whom we called Pinkie (he encouraged the name) was approached by a woman for a dance. I forget why there were muscular cowboys on the stage stripping down to their boots and boxers, but the woman stopped in the middle of the dance to pay her respects. I have no idea what she said, but Pinkie nodded enthusiastically and I lip-read him saying, "Me too."

    The woman looked surprised, but it made her laugh, and the cowboy was a good sport when Pinkie pulled him off the stage and began to dance over-dramatically with him to a slow ballad called "I Swear" by John Michael Montgomery.

    That's one way to go about it. I've also seen straight guys do similar things for the grins and giggles, so your character's not exactly outing himself to everyone, but he's not exactly being subtle, either.
     
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  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Fixed that for you ... you'll note that i've removed the word Hetero from you quote to show the truth of the situation - ie that its any man not just het men
     
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    So what makes you think Gay men shake hands like women do ?
     
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  12. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Yes. I feel like there's some unstated assumption here, and I can't figure out what it is. It parses out as if the assumption is that a human being who is not a heterosexual man is a woman, but I refuse to accept that that's it. So what is it?
     
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    A lot of men shaking hands with another man are a bit mano et mano about it but it is not an indication of sexuality

    Ive got three freinds who are gay , none of them shake hands in an effeminate manner... in fact two of them are more knuckle crushing than I am
     
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  14. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    I cringed at that. Then I saw Chicken address it and was going to leave it until this:

    I shake hands like a man (according to your description) and have never in my life had someone, male or female, take hold of my fingers and shake them. Women don't shake hands differently to men. And if they did, gay men wouldn't do it the female way. Because they're gay, not trans.

    ...am I not meant to do that? Damn.
     
  15. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    Your handshake is more gentle hand to hand?

    To the OP, one of my daughter's friends is gay (they may all be) and, unless you knew about his love-life, you wouldn't be aware of it.
    One of the engineers at work is gay, a fact which became apparent when, in conversation, she referred to her partner in the feminine.
    Both of these are "normal". Their sex life remains as private as mine does.

    One thing I'd suggest is that, in showbiz, people tend to be caricatures...exaggerated versions of normality...so I wouldn't be surprised to find a gay man to be a little more flamboyant. On the other hand, being backstage he may hate the whole OTT "all gay men wear high heels" caricature, and deliberately downplay his sexuality.
     
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  16. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I'm probably not the only person who sees the difference in handshakes.

    Every way I want to write my gay character seems to be stereotypical to you - maybe the only things I know about gay people ARE the stereotypes I've seen on TV, in the media, on the news, from friends.

    I asked the question for advice, and it has been answered lots of different ways by lots of different people, except you, you seem intent on burning my flag everytime I put it up. Please don't.
     
  17. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Because most gay men I've come across, bearing in mind I've come across one a school and one at a book fair, the rest have been the general STEREOTYPES ON TV/IN FILMS, have all had a more gentle/feminine handshake.
     
  18. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    But what if the stereotypes are true?

    Stereotypically, a gay man might have a feminine handshake, in the real world, a number of gay men will have a feminine handshake, and - going by people on here - some won't. So how can it be stereotypical AND offensive if for a percentage of gay men, it's actually true?
     
  19. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Thanks for the explanation - I thought I'd drifted into mumsnet for a minute which is liberally sprinkled with OH/DH/DP/AIBU/WWYD/DSIS/DBRO and a whole host of other initials that I do not know.
     
  20. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    MAybe this is why stereotypes happen in books and on screen, because we don't want to actually say "he's gay. she's gay" so instead, we show the character's gay by giving him feminine habits and her, masculine ones?? I don't know the answer, that's why I'm here.
     
  21. halisme

    halisme Contributor Contributor

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    Step one: Create character.
    Step two: Make that character like a certain set of genitals.
    Step three: Realise that due to the surrounding stigma, it will likely affect their life, and as personality is a product of biology and environment, said persecution will have helped shape them.
    Step four: Do not let said persecution or their sexuality be the sole defining characteristic.
    Congratulations, you have created your gay character.
     
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  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    but if you want to avoid causing offense avoiding stereotypes is a good way forward. I'd bet you've met more gay men than that but most people don't introduce themselves by discussing their sexuality

    "Mine's a pint, I'm gay by the way

    That'll be $4, I'm bisexual

    No i'll get it I insist, I'm mostly straight but had a gay fling in college"
     
  23. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    I'd gently remind you that A) these are the only gay men you are aware you've met, and B) a sample size of two irl + however many known stereotypes in works of fiction does not reliable statistical information make.

    Again, nothing said about offense. You asked for help portraying a gay character respectfully. We're talking about respect; people get way too fired up about 'offense' and I'm simply not interested in pursuing a conversation down that lane.

    Yes: some gay men will have weaker handshakes. So will some straight men. Some women will have stronger or weaker handshakes regardless of sexuality. Treating a 'feminine' trait (that is obviously not inherently feminine) as an indicator that a male character is gay is just ... silly, frankly. It's a stereotype that's been pushed by shallow, disrespectful portrayals of gay men. It doesn't mean there aren't gay dudes out there so flaming they are literally setting the curtains on fire, yes, but continuing to push the stereotype without exploring or interrogating it is - in my opinion - not particularly cool. Gay men in media are often portrayed as very feminine, and gay women as very masculine, and this ignores the existence of those who don't fulfill the stereotypes, and can often result in them feeling ostracized or like they're 'doing it wrong' - it's alienating. I wouldn't want to alienate someone I respected. Especially when it is, quite obviously, just so easy not to.

    Listen, if you're dead set on this, I'm not going to argue with you, because it's really not worth my damn time. But I'd invite you to read my above post again, specifically the part where I differentiate between main and side characters. Why should your only gay character's only apparent features be a stereotypically ~gay~ ones? You're not going to develop this character beyond a cardboard cutout borrowed from every other representation of gay men you've ever seen. Does that seem respectful?
     
  24. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Yes, some gay men do have feminine traits. Some don't. The issue isn't whether this exists int the real world or not, the issue is that it's a stereotype that you're applying to a secondary character. If this were a fully fleshed out individual you would have a lot more leeway, but you admitted that he's not a main character, he's essentially a walk on and doesn't get much action. If you make him just a collection of stereotypes, that's kind of offensive and shows that he's not there to be an accurate representation of the people in your story but a token character who's just there so you can say, 'look at me guys, I'm inclusive. That makes me cool, right?' or, 'Here! Here's a gay character for you, maybe that'll make you happy.' Either way, it's patronizing and can be somewhat demeaning. I'm going to assume this is not what you're hoping to accomplish, given you're asking advice on the subject. So, my advice is, please be careful with the stereotypes and avoid them if at all possible unless you want to make him a very filled out character.
     
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  25. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    LOL!

    Now that's probably true! So:

    1. I need to avoid stereotypes,
    2. Even if the stereotype is true,
    3. I need to write the character gay without a stereotype,
    4. and without writing "Chase was a gay man, even though he had a manly handshake, he couldn't let go of his Liza CD" Oh, wait, that's a stereotype ...
     
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