How do you define art?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Louanne Learning, Aug 22, 2022.

  1. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

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    Merrimack Webster’s definition of egotism makes no reference to how the subject feels about others. However, egoism may have been a better word for me to use.

    In case I was being too subtle, I think that mural is an asshole move by Bansky. He is basically saying removing his murals is akin to erasing the earliest known incidents of homo sapien art.
     
  2. montecarlo

    montecarlo Contributor Contributor

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    That the word started as a blacksmith analogy is super interesting.
     
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  3. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I just don't interpret it that way. I've been doing a little bit of reading about Banksy's art, and he has a lot more to say than "look how important I am." My instinct tells me he was motivated by more that egoism.
     
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  4. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    The body language in this painting by Francisco Soria Aedo (3 May 1897, Granada - 2 November 1965, Madrid) tells a story. The love and joy in her face really caught my eye.

    http://godsandfoolishgrandeur.blogspot.com/2018/04/

    Pasión, 1926.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    "You ain't getting any of my grapes, player."
     
  6. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Kind of a “Christ, this guy again” look :D
     
  7. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    It's interesting that both of you see the guy as being rejected. I didn't see that at all.
     
  8. Also

    Also Student of Humanity Supporter

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    I get that all the time in interpretive feedback to my chapters. (I encourage reactive and interpretive feedback over prescriptive feedback in critique notes and groups, as I find it more productive.)

    It often amazes me the interpretations I get (and hear others get) about what's going on under the surface in character interactions and especially dialogue, including much that I know for a fact is not "true" in the constructed reality of my story. Sometimes it's because I've written too vaguely. (Though ambiguity of motive is at least as often a plus as a minus to literary readers.) More often it's people letting their perceptions be colored by their own history or other baggage. Either way it's often fascinating, and it yields lots of (my own) ideas for directions to take a relationship.
     
  9. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    I didn't either until they mentioned it. Now it's all I can see.

    The power of suggestion...
     
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  10. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Nah, I don't see it. He's confident. He's got her. She is enthralled. She brought grapes.
     
  11. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Looking at some of the symbolism—she looks angelic, dressed in a filmy white toga and holding grapes (to link her to paganism I suppose), and her entire body is bathed in bright light. He somehow has a deep shadow over his head that doesn't touch hers at all. That was done for a reason, to get something across. One thing I learned from copying old paintings is that emphasizing the head draws attention to intelligence or personality, while lighting the body but not the head means an emphasis on strength and/or carnality. Plus, take a look at that animal skin he's wearing. It looks like the head of it is aimed right at her crotch with the mouth wide open. I get the impression he's macking on her hard and she's meant to look sweet and innocent by comparison. Like a 'Seduction of Innocence' kind of thing, But that smile is pretty hard to read. It could be meant to be sincere, but it looks fake at the same time. Like maybe the eyes aren't really involved. But taken altogether, her body language does seem like she's diggin' on him.
     
  12. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Every reader/appreciator of art brings their own experience and perspectives to their interpretation, for sure.
     
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  13. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    The artist doesn't always know what's in there. for art to be any good, it needs to be a collaboratiomn between conscious and unconscious, and often if you read an artist's statement, it seems like he isn't even talking about the same painting you're looking at. Though some of that might be that he doesn't want to admit to the forbidden themes he included. But often he's channeling something he's unaware of.

    I seem to remember Coleridge making some kind of incredibly weak apologetics that his Christobel was all about beauty and Christian love, when it's actually about as far as you can get from that.
     
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  14. Also

    Also Student of Humanity Supporter

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    Examples, both about a phone call:

    1. (From a woman.) "She's sooo over him LOL." (Not true at all. He's fed up with her inability to decide and state her feelings clearly, a trait that led them into the weeds in the first place, and is ready to let go once and for all; whereas she's trying to intimate she wants to try again.)

    2. (From a different woman.) "He's a hot mess." So first of all, using a cliché like "hot mess" somewhat discredits any interpretation in my eyes. And yes, he's somewhat conflicted and able to go either direction at that point; BUT she's the one who blew up a 5-year relationship insisting it wasn't because of him but because of something she needed to discover within herself--and who was always somewhat secretive about her thoughts and feelings, and even now can't state clearly what she wants going forward. So from his POV, and mine-the-writer's, and most any other male's, SHE's the one who's a mess. (Though I'm completely sympathetic to her--and to him--as one of my children.)
     
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  15. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I didn't notice. That's an important detail! You really have to take in all the details of a piece of art to make the most insightful interpretation.
     
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  16. Also

    Also Student of Humanity Supporter

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    The eternal male predicament, the interpretation of such smiles.
     
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  17. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    To add to what I said about artists and the unconscious—there's another factor too. It could just be that a writer (for instance, or a visual artist) thinks they got one thing across clearly, but maybe it doesn't really read that way to most people. Just as readers bring their own interpretations, so do writers.
     
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  18. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    We don't see his face but his head is lowered so his eyes are level with hers, her eyes are open, her face relaxed and I see a broad, natural smile. That's a pretty intense eye contact and his expression is reflected in hers. Shoulders down, easy stance. It's love, I'm afraid. True love. Now, all we need do is find a cure.
     
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  19. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    When was the last time you tried to pick a woman up? Haha. 2006 for me (and we're still married) but I know that smile. "Aren't you cute, but move that hand any closer and you'll be wearing your balls for earrings!"
     
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  20. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    The last time I tried to pick up a woman was never. With the painting, I relate with the woman, and you relate with the man. He's pretty hot. Wonder what he is saying.
     
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  21. ridgerunner

    ridgerunner Active Member

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    To me; it's the mans hand. The fingers in a semblance of a claw but also of a " come to me my little one".
    The dark and animal skinned male versus the almost virginal white of the female sets the stage .
     
  22. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    And the placement of it. Like he's tuning in Tokyo.
     
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  23. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    All I know is that girl is trouuuuuble!
     
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  24. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

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    Chiming in about Banksy, mentioned earlier in here. I passed this wall on my walk this morning. This is not Banksy's work, but the wall is one he did tag more than five years ago. The original 'unpermitted' work was removed by a city government with no soul, but the wall has not been plain ever since. Even though this is not Banksy, it is somewhat of a legacy.
    upload_2023-3-3_13-47-56.png
     
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  25. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    All those eyes! Watching you. It has a crazy, overwhelming, crowded feeling to it. Is that life in the city, or just life with humans in general?
     

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