How do you define art?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Louanne Learning, Aug 22, 2022.

  1. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I've never written anything like that. I'd like to give it a try someday.
     
  2. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Gustave Doré (1832 - 1883) - "Empyrean Light"

    Empyrean means relating to heaven.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    If there is indeed empyrean light and it looks like the painting above, I'll get a migraine halfway there.
     
  4. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Well, a headache in heaven or a sunburn in hell... pick your poison.
     
  5. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Clausen, George (Sir) - Youth Mourning

    The painting is a response to the horrors of the First World War and, in particular, the death of Clausen’s own daughter’s fiancé. He uses the nakedness of the figure and the starkness of the barren landscape to emphasize the grief and emptiness of death. A wooden cross marks a grave and in the distance are the flooded craters of a battlefield.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    If it's all the same to you, I reckon I'll pick something a little more positive than either proffered poison.
     
  7. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Etruscan funeral rites were not somber but festive. Two dancers on the wall of the Tomb of the Triclinium, c. 470 BCE, Etruscan chamber tomb, Tarquinia, Italy.


    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Deleted - image would not post
     
  9. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    “The Devil Ice Skating when Hell Freezes Over” by John Collier (1908)

    Does the Devil here remind you of anyone?

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Wilbur Wright?
     
  11. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    yeah, now that you mention it...
     
  12. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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  13. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Another depiction of nightmares...

    Ognjen Pavkovic, The Nightmare

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Lot of good that roseary did her.... Not too subtle with the crucifixion pose either.
     
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  15. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    La Légende des Willis (1847) by Hugues Merle

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    That seems to be closley related to the Maenads of Greek myth:

    Often the maenads were portrayed as inspired by Dionysus into a state of ecstatic frenzy through a combination of dancing and intoxication. [...]

    These warlike parthenoi ("virgins") from the hills, associated with a Dionysios pseudanor ("fake male Dionysus"), routed an invading enemy. In southern Greece they were described as Bacchae, Bassarides, Thyiades, Potniades,[better source needed] and other epithets.

    The term maenad has come to be associated with a wide variety of women, supernatural, mythological, and historical,associated with the god Dionysus and his worship.

    [​IMG]
    Dancing maenad. Detail from an ancient Greek Paestumred figure skyphos, made by Python, c. 330–320 BC. British Museum, London
    In Euripides' play The Bacchae, maenads of Thebes murder King Pentheus after he bans the worship of Dionysus. Dionysus, Pentheus' cousin, himself lures Pentheus to the woods, where the maenads tear him apart. His corpse is mutilated by his own mother, Agave, who tears off his head, believing it to be that of a lion. A group of maenads also kill Orpheus, when he refuses to entertain them while mourning his dead wife.

    In ceramic art, the frolicking of Maenads and Dionysus is often a theme depicted on kraters, used to mix water and wine. These scenes show the maenads in their frenzy running in the forests, often tearing to pieces any animal they happen to come across.


    According to the versions of the myth I'm familiar with, actual human women would supposedly become possessed by maenads in festivals of Dionysus and dance themselves into a frienzied state, and some poor bastard in the crowd would be selected as their victim. They would stomp on him as they dance, supposedly killing him. This part was probably totally mythical though. It seems something universal is being expressed in both of these myths. And I'll bet there are many similar myths in other cultures as well.

    Source

    Sounds like they represented the state of frenzied intoxication, through wine or emotion and nocturnal celebration, dance etc, that can overtake people and destroy them as rational human beings. Either that or it's saying something about certain kinds of women (people maybe) you see at weddings and parties where the police tend to get called. :) I've seen many women like this in police bodycam videos, they tend to be the ones who start the violence, and then the men have to get involved. And the women frequently attack police bodily and scream obscenities in their faces.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2023
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  17. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I see the parallels. Woman as the bewitchers, a common trope in ancient literature. And when it comes to violence, there is somewhat of a double standard. Violent women are possessed, demonic, intoxicated. Violent men are brave warriors.

    Consider this portrayal of the boy-warrior Cuchulainn in battle (circa 2000 years ago), emphasizing what a formidable opponent he was.


    In How the Irish Saved Civilization, I was captivated with the chapter that introduced me to the independent-spirited Queen Medb and Cuchulainn, and the ancient epic Irish tale, TÁIN BÓ CÚALNGE - the Cattle Raid of Cooley. You can read a translation of TÁIN BÓ CÚALNGE for free online at Project Gutenberg:

    The Project Gutenberg eBook of TÁIN BÓ CÚALNGE, by Joseph Dunn.
     
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  18. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Well, that depends on the situation. Even in war there's a definite line between courage and war crimes. I've never seen a school shooter for instance called a valiant warrior, or a domestic abuser, or a street gangster doing a drive-by shooting. Some violence is necessary and warranted, and some isn't. You want to be careful to avoid broad stereotypes. And of course any woman who proves her bravery in combat is also considered a brave warrior.

    I don't understand exactly what myths like the Maenads mean. I can see two possibilities that seem likely to me (and there may be more):

    1) With many myths it feels like they're referring to either the masculine or the feminine in all of us. Meaning the Maenads for instance could represent what the Greeks considered a feminine aspect of the soul we all possess that's susceptible to drunkenness and frenzy and something akin to violent madness. In this sense, heroic myths aren't just for men, and myths featuring female characters aren't just for women, but all myths are for everyone. At times we all need to find the inner Odysseus (trickster hero), or the inner Penelope (his wife, patiently waiting for him to return from war and fending off the advances of her many suitors).

    2) Or possibly they really are intended for the myths with male characters to be for men, and female characters for women.

    And I can even see that it could be a mix of both. Generally myths are so broadly written, and so true in a deep profound sense, that they apply across many dimensions of meaning, not just to one narrow one. Such as the fact that many gods characterized both forces of nature and certain human tendencies or traits that matched them. Like Loki being both a betraying trickster who masquerades as a friend, and also representing fire, which cooks our food, brings comfort and warmth in cold winters, but can also rage out of control rapidly and become a killer/destroyer. There's a great deal of depth and psychological wisdom in myths, which is often ignored or sneered at by today's intelligentsia.

    Myth emerges from the unconscious, so the people who 'wrote' them weren't consciously aware of everything—the full meaning would only emerge gradually and perhaps never to a single person. They're the kind of things that as you learn more about life they take on more depth and meaning. This is how really profound art works, it doesn't have a single shallow, consciously arrived-at meaning. If it does, it's more like propaganda or dogma.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2023
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  19. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    @Xoic

    well said.
     
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  20. Le Panda Du Mal

    Le Panda Du Mal Contributor Contributor

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    Did someone mess with this image to add the light effect? Seems one of those "special edition" treatments that makes it worse.
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Yes, it seems the one I posted is a colour modification of the public domain image

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Empyrean_Light.jpg
     
  22. Le Panda Du Mal

    Le Panda Du Mal Contributor Contributor

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    [​IMG]

    Magic Flight or Zamfonia by Remedios Varo
     
  23. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Music gives you wings
     
  24. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

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  25. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    I thought it was an Annunciation at first
     
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