How do you go about choosing the gender identity/ethnicity/sexuality of your characters?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Rewrite The Ending, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I acknowledge the sense in your sentiment and point of view. It's not the way I write my stories, tho. Like most people who pitch a tent in the Planning Camp, I have a very particular story I want to tell. I engage my characters as actors. They have a job to do, a role to play, a story to tell that I already know. As I mentioned in my above post, this is not to say that there are never rewrites of those roles or recasting of those actors. This does most certainly happen in my writing. But I'm never writing or making changes because of a drive to serve diversity. My casts are diverse, in gender, in sexuality, in race. But that's just how they come to me. If anyone were to laud me for "representation", I would have to decline the award. I certainly didn't write it that way with that in mind. That's just how it all coalesced. You and I may well be saying the same thing in different words for all I know, or approaching a similar ideal from different directions. All I can say is that my focus is always on the story I set out to tell. How I get there may change in the course of the journey, but I totally know where the journey ends.
     
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  2. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    And I personally prefer to take the George Orwell approach: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
     
  3. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    This has the potential to go sideways into the discussion @Wreybies didn't want so I aint going there.

    Yes absolutely you could write a story about the oppressed if you wanted to... but my point was that if you are dealing with a male dominated society where important roles are filled by men, its not obligatory to create a female character filling one of those roles so as to appeal to modern tastes.

    Likewise if you are dealing with say Feudal japan you don't need to create a token white or black character when it is obvious to all concerned that the main characters are all Japanese (unless the story requires a white character as with James Clavell's shogun )

    Equally if you were writing a story about a group of women you might have no male characters of any importance.

    End of the day IMO with very few exceptions the planning process is "what is this story about ?" then "what characters do I need to serve that purpose ?"
     
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  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    That's pretty much what I was saying also...
     
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  5. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    To me, that means that you're not wearing blinders that you need to take off, so the exercise of "how could this be different" isn't useful to you. I seem to be wearing blinders that I was not previously aware of, so that exercise is useful to me, even if the product of the exercise never ends up applying to the story that I'm, er, exercising with. I want to become aware of the blinders and break them down, so that I see a wider set of possibilities either this time or next time, because the best and most interesting possibility may be outside my current viewfinder. (OK, that metaphor just got kind of wobbly.)

    As an example, when I kept telling myself, "No, you are NOT going to make this a Male Rescues Female scenario" for one situation in the HFN, and kept searching for another way, I finally came up with a way that was far more interesting than any of the rescue scenarios. The fact that it avoided a stereotype was perfectly nice, but the primary benefit was that it was just plain better.
     
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  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not suggesting that you plop a female character into a role of power, no. If you're writing purely about power (by which I mean, writing about the people and problems and strategies associated with power), there may be little to no role for anything but wealthy white upper-class adult males, or whatever the power demographic is in the fictional society in question.

    But one of the possible advantages of considering other possibilities and trying to widen the viewfinder a little is looking at the idea that there are some very interesting stories that are not about power.
     
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  7. TajBabii11

    TajBabii11 Member

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    Hmmm...see usually I already have an idea of what I want when the pieces of a story are coming together in my head before I write. I already know I'm gonna have this guy, this girl, et cetra.

    Now as far as sexuality, its easy for me to go back and forth because I'm bi. I'm writing an LGBT story now with two females and I already had the whole thing formulated in my head. If it's not an LGBT themed story, it's harder for me to decide. I would say it's pretty easy for me to decide a character's sexuality. Same goes for ethnicity.
     
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  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Indeed - and if you were writing a story not about power you might have no white male characters at all (hell you could write a story entirely about power and have no white characters if it was in a setting where white characters were not found, like pre-collonial africa)... my point being not that we should only write about white men, but that we should only write about whatever serves the needs of the story, unconstrained by any 'need' to show diversity.

    Like wrey my casts tend to be relatively diverse (unless precluded by the setting) but they wind up that way due to my setting out to write interesting characters not because of any 'need' to meet a diversity target
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    So I'd say that there's nothing inherently wrong with male rescues female ... or female rescues male, or male rescues male, or female rescues female or as at the end of Dark fire 3 males and a female are rescued by an ambulatory yew tree (who is self fertile)

    I'd tend to see all of those as character is rescued by character
     
  10. Fernando.C

    Fernando.C Contributor Contributor

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    A little off topic, but man this line alone kinda makes me want to read this book, I gotta know how the hell a self fertile ambulatory yew tree manages to save 4 people (and a better question yet, why in the name of Hades is there an ambulatory yew tree in this book?)
     
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  11. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm saying that looking at diversity can widen your options for the story.

    Imagine that you're a cook, and you discover that there's a whole world of flavors that you've never heard of or considered using before. You might seek opportunities to use those flavors, might go out of your way to find those opportunities, not because someone said that you morally should, but because you have no idea what they might add until you use them, and you're probably not going to get comfortable using them until you push your comfort zone and use them for a while despite not being comfortable.
     
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Because I created him for an abortive role play and decided i really liked the character.... he's the last remaining specimen of Taxus baccatta ambulus in the lands of the Frost range .. given that the other characters include a man who did a deal with the goddess of carnage for skill at arms that involved him swearing to remain a virgin , a shape shifter who spends a lot of time as a wolf, a man who is green due to the chloroplasts in his skin, and a very short human who definitely isn't a dwarf an ambluatory talking tree isn't out of place

    ( I know talking trees in fantasy invite comparisons with tolkeins ents, but Tax is nothing like an ent, for one thing hes foul mouthed and spends a lot of time singing rude songs about their adversaries ( I had him cursed to talk only in rhyme but that was too difficult to pull off)
     
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    But you would look at those flavours before you decided what to cook

    Having decided that you were cooking a shepherds pie you wouldn't then throw in some curry powder, some lemon grass, a bit of tarragon, some Jamaican jerk seasoning, and some custard powder just because there's a wide range of possible flavours .... instead you'd pick only those flavours and ingredients necessary for the dish you were trying to create
     
  14. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But I think that a novel is a banquet, not a single dish. I totally might find a way to put dishes with new flavors into an already-partly-planned banquet. Especially when some of those flavors are perfectly fitting for the theme and I just failed to realize or remember that fact.
     
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  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    ETA bearing in mind this (from the DFTT thread)

    "This is why I try to suppress the wide streak of "You're wrong and I will argue with you until the end of time!!!!" in my personality. I'm assuming that if those restraints start to get loose, somebody would warn me. I hope. Yep."


    "You and me both ... which is why on the rare occasions you and I disagree it could go on and on and on.... fortunately we are also both adult enough to walk away and not hold grudges. :)"

    Lets just agree to disagree
     
  16. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    What if the reason you're told you're not allowed to use cumin is "you're supposed to use red pepper instead. Every single time"?
     
  17. Fernando.C

    Fernando.C Contributor Contributor

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    Honestly this is a really interesting cast of characters and yup a talking, walking, cursing tree is definitely at home here. I'll say this, and I'm genuinely serious, if this was on the back cover of your book, it would be enough to sell me on it. I'm intrigued to say the least :D
     
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Then you are clearly receiving terrible culinary advice and you should ignore it

    You can use cumin

    you can use red pepper

    You can even mix them if you want

    but you shouldn't feel the need to put them both in a trifle just because they are available

    (we may have taken the food metaphor as far as it can go ;) )
     
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  19. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Wait, wait, wait... what kind of tree? Is it representative of plant demographics? Why not a flower? Trees aren't the only race of plants in the forest, you know?
     
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  20. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Fair enough. Would you like to look at a debate thread I started about diversity in media?
     
  21. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Indeed not - in the original final scene I had him summoning a force of other ambulatory species to their rescue... but I decided that was too "Avatar"

    I've not finished it yet, but I'm having fun writing it .... I just finished a scene where some fool waters him too much and he starts to flower... he's never had these feelings before and doesn't at this stage know he's self fertile (I'm saying he but he's actually both sexes as many plants are)... cue a scene where he gets a bit randy and starts looking for something to fertilise

    "Is there anyone here who has any tree in them" Tax bellowed from the doorway, setting windows rattling and slopping ale out of tankards. " Is there anyone who'd like some ?"
     
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  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I saw that, but i'm trying to stay away from the debate room
     
  23. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    I'm shocked and appalled no one's writing a Finnish character. :(

    If we're talking about flavors, that'd be sugar-free ice cream. In fact, no artificial sweeteners either -- or cream. Well, it's basically the flavor of water that's been kept in below 0 degrees Celsius for an hour. So basically ice.
     
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  24. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I thought it was the flavour of extremely cold vodka consumed in the dark :D
     
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  25. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    Ah the ignorance. You clearly need to be educated. :D
     

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