How do you Justify killing off Characters

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Cacian, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    Well obviously I did try but when all else fail I resign myself to still not understanding it.
    You can explain a sifi literature to someone who does not grasp or imagine SiFi.
    It is what the brain is able to process.
    If the brain does not process SiFi then there is nothing one can do about it.
    A bit like taste.
    Understaning of a type of literature is dependable on how the brain processes that type.
    Some are processed and some aren't. That is the nature of the brains which explains penchant or taste.
    The brain cannot assimilate everything.
    So If said I do not understand gruesome literature is actually just that.
     
  2. Enzo03

    Enzo03 New Member

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    Well, to each their own. :)

    And just because someone doesn't die doesn't mean there's no suspense or no chance at "losing".

    You can make things bad on a much grander scale than the "mere" immediate death of a character, although it is (much) harder to do.

    You could say that killing a character is a cheap and efficient way of giving an emotion impact of its sort.

    I haven't read Cacian's works so I dunno how exactly she goes about it.

    I don't agree with her way of avoiding death altogether but I think there are things that can be learned from styles that differ from your own.

    When I was 16 my mind couldn't process Calculus. A couple of years later it could. :)

    That's probably a rude way to put it though and I'm sorry if that comes off as rude.

    It is probably a different thing though.

    For example, I cannot get myself into books such as..

    Twilight.
     
  3. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    I am not after emotional impact but more of enjoyable light journey.
    Emotions are complex to capture and believe me you won't be able to please everyone.
    So I chose to go for easier options that should please the majority.
    Suspenses through suprises of another kind is one.
    Keeping one guessing is another.
    Not giving it all is quite good trick
    By keeping my characters alive I keep my readers mind alive to in the sense that they may wonder things like this:
    I like that character..
    I know he/she is still alive,
    could he possibly reappear in another story?
    would there be a sequel with that same character?
    If he/she reappeared in a different story would I be able to tell ?

    I want my readers to want more of my stories because say the liked the characters in one story so they would want more to the same or different but with the same characters.
    If I kill my characters then my next stories won't have much meanings.

    I keep my charactes and my chances of keepingmy readers is much higher.
    My characters make me come back with more to write about because
    a) my characters are likeable to a certain audience
    b) they appeal to people and reasure them that they will always be in my stories
    c) familiarity is what people usually enjoy and find easy to deal with.
    Starting a new story with yet again new characters is a lot of work for my readers who just want to read and see their favourite characters again and again in different situations and plots , they learn to grow with them as they grow to like my stories .
    Consistancy is key and makes life much easier.
     
  4. Protar

    Protar Active Member

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    Again that really doesn't interest me. Books should be fun but I want them to make me think and make me feel. To me, it sounds as if what you're writing is mere children s literature. That's ok but it's not my thing and generally my regard for writers of children's literature is not high.

    All of those tricks are good, but in the end the emotional impact from a character death is hard to match with them. You could have your characters go through horrible ordeals besides death but I doubt you're into that either. Also most serious literature fans wouldn't appreciate a character who's perfect and invincible. We call them Mary Sues and they're pretty reviled throughout the literary landscape. When I form a connection with a character it's because they are fleshed out and feel real. Real people are flawed and real people die. The thought that a character might die (whether he does or not.) makes the reader cling on all the tighter. But do that too many times without actually making good on your threat and the reader starts to see through it. Although be warned: The same problem can arise from killing characters too much as the readers learn to not get too attached.
     
  5. Enzo03

    Enzo03 New Member

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    Hmm.

    Do her stories involve situations in which characters *could* die?

    If someone dies in a situation where "suddenly, death!" is largely improbable then it looks even weirder.

    Protar: some "children's literature" is especially gruesome though! Like Hansel & Gretel where they throw the witch/old woman into the stove. :)
     
  6. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    I write across the board including children's.
    One has to experience all types in order to get a broader spectrum on writing.
    Children's and poetry are one of my favourites.
    I like fuss free and naive style of writing.The less restrictions the better. Children allow that.
    Children are the bestest audience because they literally imagine everything you write to them without too many questions or ifs and buts.
    Adults have got more baggage hence they are more complicated to please as they tend to tense up.
    So I keep my literature for children wider and wilder fun and for adults I narrow down to what works for me as a reader.
     
  7. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    I am guessing it was not the style you had the problem with but what the story was about.
    No you are not being rude at all.:)
    Twilight is SiFi.
    Is is the genre or the plot that you cannot get into?
     
  8. Dante Dases

    Dante Dases Contributor Contributor

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    Twilight bloody well isn't SF and if you think it is you need to read some real SF.

    Right, how can you justify killing a character? Don't see why you need to. I just do what the story needs. Sometimes that involves killing characters. Sometimes it involves mentally and physically screwing them in horrifying ways. Sometimes I've written myself into a corner and realised I needed to kill a character or two to get them out of that situation. Other times it's been entirely planned. My characters are mortal, just like real people. If you stick a knife in someone's heart, they'll die: same goes for my characters.
     
  9. James Berkley

    James Berkley Banned

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    LOL, try fantasy.
     
  10. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Yes, and in fact children's literature needs excitement and danger and darkness too. The best children's literature will address those dark scary places in your mind; I would urge you to give the best of it a try, if you haven't.

    _Where the Wild Things Are_ is about anger. _A Light Princess_ is about supreme selfishness. Roald Dahl's books - _Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_, _Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator_, Matilda_, _James and the Giant Peach_, and so on - include a great deal of anger and injustice and sometimes violence and danger. (The Vermicious Knids still make me just a tiny bit nervous.) Rumer Godden's books are about loneliness and longing and homesickness and rebellion and hatred and the consequences of neglecting one's most fundamental responsibilities.

    Birdie in _The Doll's House_ by Rumer Godden is, yes, a doll. She's also loving, delusional, enchanted to the point of utter confusion by feathers and music, but clear-minded enough to fail be taken in by glamour when all around her have given in to it. When someone (somedoll?) she loves is endangered, it's silly flighty confused Birdie that embraces her own death in order to save him. I consider her the first tragic hero that I ever read, children's book or no children's book.

    And the first great evil? These two short lines immediately after BirdIe's death:

    "Tinkle. Tinkle. Tinkle," said the music box.
    Marchpane smiled.


    I love the really good children's books.
     
  11. Felipe

    Felipe Active Member

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    Some people need a good killing.
     
  12. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    I have heard of Twilight and I think I saw something briefly on TV about it but of course anything that does not reflect real life circumstances is for me ficitons. Werewolves and Vampires are not humans. They are made up. Fantasy/fiction. Werewolves types of characters also appear in SiFimovies hence me quoting it as.
    Yep.
    I do what I need and not what the story needs. I control the story not it to me.
    Maybe but yoru story isn't. Once you a write a story/book then it is there forever. You cannot make mortal.
    Yes and no.
    They are like people but they are made up/created by you for the story.
    In this sense they can't be entirely exact like people because they were invented out of the blue for a reason.
     
  13. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    depends.
    some people need a good telling off.
    Killing them is easier. They won't be here for a long to tell the tale.
     
  14. Protar

    Protar Active Member

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    And that's why I don't really like children's literature that much. It's so easy to write. You can write a cliched, 10 page story, filled with 2D characters and gaping plotholes and young children will lap it up. So if you get a good publishing deal you can sell books by the bucketful for minimal effort. Children's literature doesn't offer the challenge that I want as a writer. But really that's off topic.
     
  15. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    This is entirely subjective. In fact it is one of the hardest to write. When I first started it was nothing but easy. I am still not finding my feet when it comes writing children's stories.
    The reason I say that is because some children are more advanced then others and more intuitive with stories.
    Some children can take five pages story and some others can do 10/15pages in one go.
    It is hard to find the just middle but all the same children will take into anything at first and then become a little bit more demanding/chosy so I have to bear that in mind in order not to lose their audiance.
    Children are the bestest readers to me. :)
    that is good for me because it means I am allowed to write more and more without worrying they might not find it interesting.
    It is engaging that way and limitless obviously with legal boundaries taken into account.:)
     
  16. Protar

    Protar Active Member

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    Well you might have been putting all of your effort into the work but the truth is the average child (talking about young children here.) won't notice said effort. So yes it is easy to write. What do you find difficult about it? you've said yourself that the range is only about 5-10 pages. And yes children become more choosy as they get older but it still isn't on par with adults. Are you seriously suggesting that children's writers are at the level of Tolkien or George R.R.Martin?

    As to your second point I'd argue that children's literature gives you less freedom with ideas (if you want the kids to be interested in your ideas.). They need to be quite simple ideas or else they won't be understood and it can be hard to address certain issues with them (not that you see to want to address said issues.). With adult/YA literature you're free to make things much more complex and engaging, with moral ambiguity, dark spots, and of course more pages to write down ideas.
     
  17. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I wouldn't say children's literature is any easier or harder to write than any other type of literature. There are good and bad stories/writers there just like any other genre. So I think we should steer clear of subjective judgments based on genre and our individual interests in them.

    As to justifying the death of a character (or characters), that, IMHO, has to depend on the story's needs. Whether you kill someone off or don't, it has to be because it's best for the story. Personal squeamishness or blood-lust should have absolutely nothing to do with it.

    (Cacia, I would highly recommend reading "The Fall of Freddie the Leaf: A Story Of Life For All Ages" by Leo Buscaglia. You will see that death in a story, even for very young children, does not have to be traumatic.)
     
  18. hootertooter

    hootertooter New Member

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    I didn't read the whole topic, so I apologize if I'm repeating something someone else already said...

    You should kill your most beloved characters, because that will move the reader the most. I actually get a kick out of seeing readers moan over emotonally charged deaths, because then I know I succeeded as a storyteller.

    There's no comparison to real-life murder because these characters are fake where as people are real. That's like claiming I saved the world with violence because I played a videogame.
     
  19. Protar

    Protar Active Member

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    Well that's your personal opinion but lets face it, while it's certainly possible to create deep, 3D characters and thought provoking plots for children's literature, the kids aren't generally going to notice. You could easily just take a stock plot line, flat characters ect. and they'd be satisfied with it. So you can put all the effort in but it would be wasted. Perhaps there is some bias on this site because as avid readers most of our reading tastes were more advanced at a young age? In any case it's a matter of personal opinion and off topic.
     
  20. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Precisely. :)
     
  21. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    I will have a look thank shadowwalker.
     
  22. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    simple is not easy to write.
    Try it yoursefl.
    Unless your mind is tuned in with children's mind then writing their stories are not as obvious as you think.
    check in the children's section (short stories). I have posted three there.
    They took me a while to get the ideas plus I have to write them in English. Quite difficult for me but I enjoyed them.
     
  23. Protar

    Protar Active Member

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    Well yes I would find it difficult because I'm not interested in the topic (or in tune with a child's mind.). But if I was able to do that it would be easy. I mean I have to be tuned into the fantasy mind set to write fantasy, but after that it's still a challenge. I will however check out your work, and now let us return to the topic on hand.
     
  24. Enzo03

    Enzo03 New Member

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    But you did.

    And now I'm going to go to my friends and tell them all about how
    Something else; I wouldn't necessarily say kill your most beloved character(s) but rather one who, if they were someone you knew, you would not want to die. Though these can go hand-in-hand very easily.

    Yet another thing; I realized that not a single fiction piece on my shelf that is not a "Young readers'" book has people die... and even a few of those books that are for younger readers have people who die too!
     
  25. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    of course back to topic.
    I am on what I said all along.
    I am not for turning, I shall endeavour to keep every single character of mine alive.
    That is a promise I make to myself because it is easier to keep.
     

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