How Do You Perceive Character that Values Career Over Family?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Marthix2016, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. Irina Samarskaya

    Irina Samarskaya Senior Member

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    So, you're saying we should have arranged marriages and a centralized government that dictates who does what work?

    I feel at home all of a sudden...

    My argument was against people who sacrifice their families for their careers. Although there are some heroes who do this (like the millions dead in WWII for example) most people aren't forced to die for the sake of others (or volunteer to do so), instead too many people sacrifice what opportunities they're bestowed by actual self-sacrificing heroes by indulging in an ultimately meaningless career as a disposable workerbee. It's fine to do a job, it's not fine to make that job a God. After all, the only reason we exist in the first place was because our parents decided they wanted to make us rather than end their lines there and die surrounded by documents instead of descendants (Or, they were simply horny bastards. Either way, I'm grateful to be alive regardless of why I'm alive).
     
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    This is even less coherent than the housework nonsense.

    You're the one saying that people who want to dedicate themselves to a particular effort shouldn't do so until they're married and have five kids. Right? I'm saying that if they want to, they should go ahead and do it.

    Some people make their career or vocation their top priority.

    Some people make marriage and kids their top priority.

    Some people have other priorities.

    People can make different choices, and those choices can be right for the people that make them. We don't all need to be identical.
     
  3. Irina Samarskaya

    Irina Samarskaya Senior Member

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    Most of what you're arguing against are points I never made. I only said it's stupid to live for work rather than work to live (especially at the sacrifice of family-making). I never said nobody should work until they're head of a big family nor that only men should work nor that people ought to be forced to do anything (except not murder or steal).

    Those stupid one-liners that begin with "So, you're saying..." are meant to illustrate how I see your replies to me. As intellectually dishonest and clearly attempting to argue against points not-made because the actual points themselves are too reasonable to argue against.

    If I wasn't utterly clear: I have no intention of forcing anyone to do anything.

    I think it is stupid to put work over family, especially since that's how bad childhoods are made. And since I have empathy for the children of the future and know what it's like to have distant parents, I figured it was worth mentioning--especially since I'm the only one to do so, so explicitly and unequivocally.

    However it's up to Whomever to do what Whomever pleases; so long as Whomever is willing to suffer the consequences.

    Likewise, it's up to me to say what I think in answering an OP that is explicitly aimed at what "You" think of someone who puts work over family life.
     
  4. Marthix2016

    Marthix2016 Banned

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    I am absolutely not going to make her story like "I am so happy without kids" moments. Won't even focus in on that type of stuff. I will focus her story on her daily life/work like you say. She lives the life she enjoys/loves. She will do things that are uncharacteristic of her family, she is sort of the odd one singled out. She is like that naturally. Odds are definitely stacked against her. I suppose I could include a scene of her having an unhappy relationship with someone...I could picture her having a relationship that really went south on her...backstabbed almost. That's why she gets very protective of herself...she puts herself and her health first and foremost (and I don't think that comes off as selfish...at least I hope not)....if you won't take good care of yourself and health you probably won't be around for long.

    She is very conscious of herself. Very hard on herself. Lots of things from her past haunt her, she has demons inside that will haunt her throughout the story. She lives a tough life. She will encounter plenty of conflicts throughout her story. In the long run I strongly believe readers will respect her and appreciate her strong will to fight for her beliefs and her organization.
     
  5. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    So someone was borrowing your keyboard when you demanded the multiple kids, etc.? Sorry, I thought that was your post; I was misled by the fact that it was posted under your name.

    It might feel stupid for you. I think it's sometimes useful for a person to realize other people are not identical to them. Some people, for example, don't want kids. Really. You may find that inconceivable because it's not how YOU feel, but, again, consider the possibility that others are not identical to you.

    Again, it is possible to simply not have kids. If you don't have kids, then no one is having a bad childhood.

    Again, it is possible to simply not have kids. If you don't have kids, then no one is having a bad childhood. The character described in the post that started this thread was specifically not having kids.
     
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  6. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    I'm glad I came back to this thread. I was beginning to worry I was the only person here who fell into unproductive conversations/debates. :bigtongue:
     
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  7. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Maybe I'm just lacking a conceptual footing as to why people would see this person other than how you wish to present her. Glancing back through the radioactive minefield of opinions in this thread, I'm beginning to realize that yes, that's probably my issue. I must concede that I do not have a knowledge-based engagement as regards the pressures a woman may encounter with respect to marriage and children vs career. I don't and won't pretend that I know anything about that. I can form a theory. I can form an educated theory. I can form a well-educated theory. But I cannot know because this knowledge is necessarily experiential. I'm a gay man and I can only know what it's like for a gay man to think about having a family, a husband, children, etc. vs my work life.

    I cannot know what it is for a woman to engage those paradigms because I am not one.

    With that said, and understanding the nature of my personal POV on life, her career-oriented mindset would not be something I would cast judgment on. It's just who she is. If she were slovenly and lazy and a leech on society, that could very well be something that I engage through the "judgie centers" of my brain, but not a hard-working, goal-oriented person, regardless of the anatomical equipment with which she was born. I would engage that as one of a group of choices any person could make that is productive and engaged with the world in which she lives.
     
  8. ShalaylaW

    ShalaylaW Member

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    "Basically? As retarded. What's the point of working if not for a family? Especially with men's cases. With women, working is even more pointless because unless there's a half dozen or so little ones there really isn't much of a point in doing ìmore than the bare minimum.

    I don't take people who work hard/a lot but are lacking in their family lives very seriously, as they're essentially digging their own graves"

    You know that the opposite word for hard working is lazy right? Are you on here because you're a writer or because you have something against people who are more passionate than you? Having kids is not the reason for working hard, it stems from the will to be better, to improve one's life and others.
    So if your dog was hit by a car let's say, and the vet you took him to was dedicated to saving animals but had no family, would you resent him even though he saved your dog?
    That is the importance of skill and hard workers.
     
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  9. raine_d

    raine_d Active Member

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    Firstly, I was pretty okay with this until you got to her protecting herself above others - that's going to be a hard sell in a likeable or admirable character. No, I wouldn't respect someone who did that, it's not go-getting, it's self-obsessed and rides the ragged edge of moral cowardice. Careers are important, but should never - in a person I would have any time for - be more so than actual human beings.

    BUT... and secondly... why does she need to be both 'me-first' and likeable/admirable? Plenty of successful main characters have been selfish, self-obsessed and anything but likeable, and still thoroughly enjoyable.
     

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