Not saying full-blown back to normalcy, but cities/communities here and there where bartering and different forms of entertainment (like zombie fights) take place. Say that cities were overrun with zombies, hundreds of millions dead, military bombed places to try to contain, full-blown end times (except nukes/chemical weapons). There's no government left, no military, just warlords who took power and built these communities.
Look at history, how long it takes countries to recover after a collapse. Russia for instance, how long did it take to recover after the Soviet Union fell? Guess you'd need to check in a few more decades and see how they're doing... But I'm sure some countries recover faster. I assume it has a lot to do with how corrupt the government was/is and how unified the people are in wanting to get things back in order. I would guess small areas would recover to some extent here and there before an entire city, like neighborhoods. But then they wouldn't have anything like worldwide trucking and shipping and railroad transport. How big was the apocalypse? Worldwide, or local?
Yes, I'm talking small areas. The city I'm referring to is just a few blocks in Pittsburgh. MC is hiking through WV, but not sure if him getting corn (preferably) might be more realistic in a market in Pittsburgh, or just out in a random, abandoned corn field in WV (say all the deer are dead). Worldwide event.
I just checked your original post again, all the info I needed was already there. Derp. Well let's see.. first you need to get rid of at least most of the zombies in the area and there need to not be hordes of them shuffling in randomly at times. Establish a patrolled border. Then you need to get people to stop attacking each other to steal resources—the living zombies in a way. Some group needs to take charge, one that wants what's best for the entire community, not just for themselves. And they need to be strong and honest. And they need to not be susceptible to infiltration from within by self-interested parties (corruption). Question—when people die, do they automatically become zombies? Or would that only happen if they get bit or something? It makes a difference, because if dead people go all zombie then you'd need to make sure bodies get cremated or something, or you still have a bit of an infestation.
Thanks for the insight, it's helpful. Regarding your question, I was leaning towards a bite neither killing you, nor turning you into a zombie (but they do infect you with a dormant parasite). But dying in general does because the dormant parasites become active after death. Not sure if that sounds plausible or not, but I'm really dead-set on having infection spreading rapidly enough to destabilize society, but still make it so bites don't kill you or turn you into a zombie while alive.
Oh I think it's as plausible as anything involving zombies can be. But it makes things seem extra nihilistic and depressing. Almost like there's no way to ever beat them, unless everyone is destroyed at death. Their hordes would just keep growing, as the living find it harder to survive. And just the knowledge that everyone will become one. Yeesh!
Presumably markets never would have gone away. As long as there are people trading with each other you have a market. As for communities I think they would begin rebuilding immediately because that's just how humans are. What's the alternative to building some sort of organized society? There isn't one; it will happen immediately in some way or another if you have a large enough group of people.
Lawless rogues and marauding gangs. Lack of a good leader who knows what to do and good followers willing to play their parts. Stupidity and aimlessness. Sickness. Death. Nihilism. Other stuff.
No, that's the wild west with nothing but black hats. No better than a zombie apocalypse really. I think a society being rebuilt means one where people respect each other and there's some kind of law and order, or at least no free-roaming gangs killing people. A strongman taking over is OK if he respects the group and wants to make things better for all decent people, but if he's a self-centered jackass who wants to lord it over the populace that's not what I'd call the society being 'rebuilt'. I mean, unless it was a banana republic before the zombies happened...
This will be dependent on a lot of factors that are difficult for you to cover in just one paragraph. When you say 'rebuilt' do you mean rebuilt that it would be indistinguishable from life before the Apocalypse? Or something along the lines of Woodbury/Alexandria/Hilltop/The Kingdom in The Walking Dead? The communities in The Walking Dead are fairly believable but I don't know the exact timeline but I'm pretty sure it was under 3 years, at least in the television series. In some places that rely on hydroelectric power, some areas may be able to resume 'normal' activities fairly quickly, but I'm just basing that on my memory of 'Life After People'. I think, absent a severe shock, like nuclear winter, people would be able to rebuild a 1900 type civilization fairly quickly (within a few years). A lot would probably depend on the population density and available resources though. If there is something left to be exploited and people with the knowledge on how to do it, people will be fighting for it and I guess the last man standing will use it to solidify their claim or expand.
As others had mentioned above, it really depends on the "state" of civilization that is restored. Re-establishing a form of feudalism built around the control of violence & food would likely take only a mere couple weeks, but restarting industry & supply chains are a whole new level. How I imagine the stages to go in case of a zombie apocalypse: 1. A period of chaos "every man for himself" similar to I am Legend's bulk right after the shock of the apocalypse. 2. Organized gangs / raiders / wanderers. Survivors bundling together to pool resources and skills. Still mostly nomadic. 3. Settlement phase where the above groups find suitable space to settle and defend it. The phase where "production" starts to slowly overtake "scavenging", starting with basic foodstuffs and agriculture. Groups are still largely restricted to the walls & perimeters of their settlements. 4. Open-up phase when the above settlements begin to engage in trade with one another, establishing routes that are regularly patrolled. Parallel, settlements begin reclaiming chunks of the surrounding area by expanding their walls or establishing patrols & outposts. This is when settlements & gangs might start controlling small disorganized armies. 5. Specialization phase, when individual settlements abandon production of goods they can only produce with inefficiency and begin to rely on trade. Certain settlements become hotspots and grow into townships. These might even have the capacity to begin the creation of a professional army. Established armies are able to patrol and guard large swathes of land that in turn become agricultural hotspots capable of feeding the townships. 6. Re-industrialization, when those settlements specialized on the production of goods begin to supplant physical labour with machinery. I don't think steam power would have any prominence due to our current world's involvement with electricity, more so I would expect that industry would be established straight away on electricity. Multiple townships may start to bundle together into coalitions, alliances or even re-formed countries. 7. Re-urbanization phase where townships that see physical labour supplanted with machinery also witness a rise in productivity. Citizens once more have free time and leisure appears as a formal, well-spread thing other than the occasional wasteland pub/brothel or casino. Art re-appears, bureaucracy develops and armies formalize to resemble modern-day armies. Nations might be re-established with proper governments, these might even have navies and air-force to count with. 8. Restoration phase, where re-formed nations wield their developed militaries to reclaim large parts of their former country to clear it from zombies and "re-civilize" it. Colonies might be established and the nation might aid existing townships. This is the phase where world trade might re-appear between and across continents. In short, it's all about a group of people, the amount of guns & active soldiers they have that can patrol and clear zombies, and the "backing" to sustain these soldiers. This backing goes from the soldiers themselves scavenging for food (phases 1-2) to a larger-than-the-army motherland supporting them with food, weapons, ammo and entertainment (phases 7+). MadMax' world seems to be phase 4. The fallout universe's east coast is 5, Pittsburgh is 6. Fallout's Nevada is phase 5, but California is phase 7.
If you're following the Old Steubenville Pike it's a good 33 miles from the West Virginia border to the Golden Triangle. If he's gleaning corn to eat, he'd want to find it in both places. Why are all the deer dead? Wouldn't it be more fun to make him have to fight off an eight-point buck to get his prize? But how long to start rebuilding? A lot hangs on the time of year. And how soon people can start depending on each other in any way. If they get past that hurdle, as soon as possible. Humans like order, and Yinzers are pretty tough. And one thing about setting your story in a Pittsburgh neighborhood is that the region is very well watered; I'm talking about springs, not just the three rivers. That's assuming the waterworks are out of commission. Though in this case, be prepared for your characters to make a lot of sick George Romero jokes. Alternatively, to declare that anyone who mentions the guy will be shot on sight.
How long? as long as you like. It's not about time, it's about the people and the conditions they find themselves in. Gangs for example will probably be the first to establish stuff like "zombie fights" because its in their nature to enjoy that sort of thing and they have the power to make it happen and the power to create their own "safe haven". They probably wouldnt establish markets though as they would be more in to taking things by force, but as time went by and other groups formed, they would probably start to establish some sort of trade system, probably starting with prostitution, provision of medicin and drugs if they can. Less aggressive groups will be open to fair trade but will take longer to establish themselves in a "safe haven" and then they will have to find other groups to trade with. It would likely be a very long time before you would find a single group large enough to conduct trade between themselves. More likely they will act as a cooperative and share.
One thing that always has bothered me with zombie stories and films is the wonton expenditure of ammunition. In a real apocalypse scenario you are not going to have anyone producing more ammunition. While there is a considerable amount currently out there, shooting at zombies and raiders is going to dwindle the stock rapidly, especially popular calibers like 5.56/.223 or 9mm and .45 ACP. If the last few wars are any indication, around 100,000+ rounds are fired per enemy death. Granted this includes suppressive fire with machine guns, but still, there are going to be more bangs than kills. Bullets are going to become a hot commodity, even more so the further you get from a supply source like a warehouse or military installation that could be looted. Gangs that managed to secure an ammunition cache would either horde it for their own use or leverage it for some benefit. I think if the scenario went on long enough either black powder (which can be created relatively easy) or melee weapons would take the place of modern firearms. Most people just wouldn't be able to afford the cost of blackmarket ammunition.
I try to account for this. People forage for metals that they can melt down and cast bullets out of (with molds). But how do they melt it down?! Smelting. But how do they still have power to run the machines? It's set around the Pittsburgh and northern WV areas. Lots of coal mines, experienced miners and tradesmen, and coal-powered plants. Of course, you run into issues about bullets misfiring, messing up the barrels, etc. Regardless, hopefully that's a realistic way where sometimes you could be willy-nilly with ammunition.
So casting bullets is relatively simple, at least if you are going for musket balls. Projectiles for modern weapons are generally copper core, lead filler and engineered for various performance, such as hunting or target shooting. But the little piece of lead or copper going down range from a modern firearm is probably the easiest part to make. The second hardest part would be the brass cases, as they would no longer be in manufacture. You could, in theory, collect them after shooting to reload but that brings us to powder and primers. Like I said black powder is relatively easy to make. I have made it, getting my potassium nitrate from chicken shit, my charcoal from a a fire but I had to purchase my sulfur because its hard stuff to find around non-volcanic areas. But the quality is rather bad. If you loaded it into a cartridge and fired it most modern guns would be fouled near instantly. Smokeless powder which is what is used in modern firearms burns much cleaner, which is why you didn't see any practical self-loading guns until its introduction. But all this is no good without a primer to make it detonate. That is the little button-looking thing at the center rear of all modern cases which is struck by the firing pin to make it go off. In the middle of the apocalypse they will not be in production either, taking us back to the scarcity of ammunition. It is why I said I take umbrage with books and films that have people spraying ammunition. The normal U.S. combat load out is 210 rounds per Soldier. Given an M16A2 rifle in 3 round burst mode and a 30 round magazine that will give you ten squeezes of the trigger. 7 magazines per soldier give you 70 shots in 3 round burst. Then you effectively have metal club. Put that magazine in a fully automatic weapon like you see being blasted in shows like The Walking Dead and they would all be out of ammunition and dead rather fast. It would be much better in semi-automatic with carefully aimed shots but that doesn't look so cool. If you have ever spent a day at the range, you realize how fast ammunition can be expended, in the military I have seen 10K rounds be expended over a single day of a brigade rifle qualification range. Im almost positive in the case of being chased by hordes of zombies that you would see most available ammunition burned through in a matter of weeks or months by the survivors. As for smelting, for the lead, it has a very low melting point and you could melt it in a discarded soup can over a campfire. No machines needed. It is the extruded bass cases, smokeless powder and primers that will stop you short of self-manufacturing ammunition, at least modern ammunition. In this situation, probably the best gun would be a flintlock because it doesn't require a primer/cap, just gunpowder, lead, and a flint to fire. Personally, especially if I were solo I would probably opt for a bow and arrow. It is relatively silent so I don't attract attention of zombies or marauders and I have made both bows and arrows since I was a kid so I could always repair and re-supply myself if something breaks.
How hard would it be to make crude muskets? Or flintlocks or something? Do-able? What were the ones called where you light a wick and let it burn down before the gun fires?
Could a highly inventive/resourceful person (think MacGyver) convert modern rifles or shotguns to function like something more old fashioned? I mean so, rather than firing modern cartridges, you can make lead balls and pack them in with wadding and powder behind, tamp down with your tamping stick etc, and some kind of setup so pulling the trigger sets it off. I'll bet the Mythbusters could do it! Or even like a blunderbuss, with a wide flared barrel so you can drop in nails, broken glass, or gravel or whatever you want and fire that in a broad scatter pattern. I know you could do this with a blunderbuss or an early canon.
You can make a crude musket with about $20 and a trip to Home Depot and some skills with hand tools. The ones with the wick are called match-locks. I built a few when I was younger...pretty fun to shoot once you get used to the smoke in your eyes
I had a friend who once made a black powder revolver. When he fired it he got a neck rash from sizzling powder that back-splashed at him. He was a sort of proto-MacGyver.
I haven't read it, but in World War Z that was a change in strategy they made to help turn things around before they were able to find a way to solve the zombie problem for good.
Making muskets is nonsense. Its not that easy as people are making out, if you dont want it to explode in your face, and the rate of fire is so slow they are not going to be effective. You would be better off with a sharpened stick. Depending on how fast the apocolypse hit would determine how much ammunition is avaialable to find. Eventually people could set up their own facilities to make bullets if they have the knowledge, but a bow and arrow would be far easier and more effective.
Well, people did it way back in ye olden days. "In a CAVE! With SCRAPS!!" (to quote Obadiah Stayne in Iron Man) But I get that they had manufacturing setups that wouldn't be available to our post-apocalypsers. However, my other idea, about re-purposing modern rifles and/or shotguns to fire black powder slugs or balls, and muzzle-loading them, is much more interesting I think. Possibly also hogwash, but in a story I'll bet most readers wouldn't know that. I mean, there are freakin' ZOMBIES walking around! Readers are suspending disbelief quite a ways already. Yes, it would have the same ridiculous rate of reloading and firing, but put the marksmen way back behind the front lines, where people have spears, swords, and another line behind them with archers. Then the marksmen in towers or treehouses or something behind them all. You use what you can get ahold of, even if you have to think outside of the box to do it. Yes, ammunition would run out, but there'd be a lot of guns laying around nobody would be using (because there's no ammo left for them). How to put those to use? Therein lies the question...
